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Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

interestingengineering.com

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Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#351

Post by PIKAL »

D_Alex wrote: post #290
kypro wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what political ramifications this would have. Say these monkeys were intelligent enough to have conversations with and they had thoughts and opinions on the world, but they weren't quite as smart as humans – they couldn't do advanced maths and were intellectually closer to young children – would we deny them the right to vote? Would we deny them employment rights? Etc... If we did on what grounds would we do…

>Say these monkeys were intelligent enough... Great questions, we will need some good answers soon. Not so much for the monkeys, but for AI.

It’s better not to think about that.

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#352

Post by konart »

D_Alex wrote: post #289
konart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>shouldn't we take responsibility for the results of our creation? "I gave you life, I will take it" - Taras Bulba.

Um... Taras Bulba really should not be quoted in support of "responsibility"...

Responsibility can take different forms. That's my point.

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#354

Post by jonplackett »

linkdd wrote: post #210
jonplackett wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really an argument about the definition of natural isn’t it. We’re from nature but personally I believe humans are something different. We’re the only animal with choice - that we know of at least, and if you believe in free will, which some people don’t of course.

It's not a matter of what we believe, but it's a matter of facts. Humans comes from nature, and the building blocks of a human are the same as everything else in the universe (as far as we know). Recent studies have shown that "choice" is made before we are even conscious of it (so byebye free will?), and no studies have shown that we are the only living creature able to make "choices". "Humans are special", "Humans…

By that definition how is anything ever unnatural? Everything comes from the Big Bang so everything is natural?

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#355

Post by john_minsk »

procgen wrote: post #193
ativzzz wrote: post #111

So what exactly is inherently unethical about letting this engineered organism live? Is it a violation of "Christian" ethics of playing God? If so, we've already gone way past that point with modern medicine and things like genetic engineering of mosquitoes. If it's a fear of how society reacts to the organism surviving and causing an upheaval of life philosophy, isn't all science then unethical?

I think it's less about any societal reaction and more about the organism's experience. It would be more useful to perform similar genetic experiments on human beings, in any case. But I imagine that you would be opposed to that?

Why would you be opposed to that?

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#356

Post by yeetman21 »

Veedrac wrote: post #294
yeetman21 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the scientist create a GMO chicken and they get killed by the billions to feed us, no body bats an eye. Please, "new kind of soul" is a vast over statement. When horse breeders thousands of years ago artificially bred into existence new horses, no body cared, why is this any different?

Certainly some people care a lot about factory farming. Even so, the key difference here is that brain function and intelligence are tied so tightly to the idea of human exceptionalism; that it is OK to enslave a horse but not a human, because humans have more capacity for autonomy, suffering, and so forth. How precisely to draw the line is very much a matter of disagreement.

monkey != human

i want to return to monke as much as the next guy but i dont really see it happening in the near future

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#357

Post by Geminidog »

lucb1e wrote: post #243
Geminidog wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, aborting in some circles is the same as murder so the "ethics" is a bit blurry here. The crossed the line by creating life and then they killed what could essentially be something that could have had the intelligence of a regular human being. I'm not an anti-abortionist but I can't deny that the ethics in this area is blurry. Even worse is when you're aborting genetically modified life.

> aborting in some circles is the same as murder so the "ethics" is a bit blurry here You give those circles too much credit, it's like the mythical flat-earthers. I don't know anyone who feels that way and would expect only countries like saudi arabia to have problems with abortion (though I recently learned it's also state-dependent in the USA). Probably takes some time to get the people of countries in various sta…

I don't really care about the politics of it. It doesn't really effect my life. I'm slightly supporting abortion because I'm concerned about the quality of life of the mother and father.

However I am saying that the ethical logic is sound. What's the difference between killing a man versus killing the man while he's still a baby inside his mother?

That being said there are scenarios where the above logic does get seemingly absurd. At what point is it considered murder? If I use a condom, I'm basically aborting sperm, because anyone of those little guys can become a full blown human being. Is that murder?

Note that I used the word "seemingly" it seems absurd but the question is worth considering as much as abortion itself. Is using a condom murder? Is abortion murder? I don't know. But the ethical paradox is real.

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#359

Post by jhardy54 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #202
jhardy54 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity has gone up but wages haven't kept up. The owners are rich, sure, but we should be honest about the working class getting the short end of the stick here.

250 years ago people in England, among the richest in the world, lived considerably poorer lives that the worst in the third world today. GDP per person has, to the extent it's possible to compare, gone up by 30x (3000%) since then.

You're just repeating your point instead of addressing mine.

Re: Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution

#360

Post by for_i_in_range »

0xUser wrote: post #316
for_i_in_range wrote: post #314

While a profound breakthrough, we’ll be creating, with luck, an animal that is what we are: one with consciousness. Which also means one with a lot of mental health issues, and other issues. (Disoriented, seeking identification, cognitive biases, ignorant yet certain, etc). Not bad, just is what it is. I think it’s important, though, for nature, to let it struggle for life like the rest of us, and care for it and lea…

> we’ll be creating, with luck, an animal that is what we are: one with consciousnes You seem to be assuming that, right now, humans are the only animal with consciousness. I doubt that's the case. Far from it.

Interesting, you’re right I’ve assumed that and actually have never thought about that.
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