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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#221

Post by knuthsat »

nikolay wrote: post #213
rixed wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is not that obviously immoral behavior depicted in Disney movies when ugly people misjudge good people for frivolous reasons. Racism is when a group of people consider another group as inferior / less worthy for some reason conflated with their biology or culture (of which most often than not very little is actually known). Racism is exactly the thoughts you have just expressed. Upvoted for your honest contrib…

If Bulgaria and Romania are racist, we beg you, please, take home our gypsies and treat them with respect. They've been integrating into Europe since the 15th century with no measurable success. The Communists tried that hard, too; they gave them free housing, many privileges like they could get into any university without exams. Yet, it would help if you watched documentaries of what they turned those apartment buil…

How can slavery be called integration? Having Roma slaves was a thing much longer after 15th century.

The fact that Romani people successfully integrated in US might indicate that there exists a bigger cultural divide in Europe.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#222

Post by nottorp »

_-___________-_ wrote: post #153
nottorp wrote: post #47

Might be worth pointing out that those apartment buildings are everywhere in the ex-communist block. In various states of (dis)repair. I think they were called "comfort III" (with I being the best). They're as bad as they look even when maintained.

The word you're looking for is "bloc". They're apartment blocks in the ex-communist bloc .

Funny enough, over here an apartment "block" is called a "bloc". I am in the ex-communist bloc or whatever.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#223

Post by s9w »

dang wrote: post #198
s9w wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assessment doesn't hold any water. It's a bunch of Americans virtue signalling about how good they are, talking about a problem they don't know. Hence my inquiry about that. Because as a European, I know that the things said in this thread are objectively not true.

Even assuming all that is true, the comment broke the site guidelines and is not ok to post here.

No it didn't. But the lovely guy in this thread who called me a racist did. And the 2-5 trump posts per day do. And the guys who openly call for violence do. The guidelines have been ignored or months now, leaving nothing of value on this site.

I will continue to do what I do. I recommend that you ban me though.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#224

Post by chefandy »

nickpp wrote: post #215
chefandy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the above comment about how locals would refuse to patronize a restaurant staffed by a Romani worker. If you're living in an environment where people go out of their way to make sure you don't have any economic opportunity no matter what you do, what the hell is the point of preparing your children for a workforce that is guaranteed to reject them? To try and gain respectability among people who are steadfastly…

That comment is simply false. Nobody cares where the restaurant workers are coming from. They do care if they respect hygienic standards so cleanliness and integration do matter - race does not.

As someone who worked in bars, restaurants and nightclubs for much of my adult life, I can absolutely assure you that racism of various flavors exists in every restaurant scene on the planet. To believe otherwise is painfully naive. Perhaps willfully ignorant.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#225

Post by chefandy »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #171
chefandy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the above comment about how locals would refuse to patronize a restaurant staffed by a Romani worker. If you're living in an environment where people go out of their way to make sure you don't have any economic opportunity no matter what you do, what the hell is the point of preparing your children for a workforce that is guaranteed to reject them? To try and gain respectability among people who are steadfastly…

Yes, you put your finger on it. I think the central issue really is a chicken-and-egg issue: the people who live around them put causal force on the Roma's anti-social behavior, the Roma put it on their rejection / exclusion by the people around them (or maybe they don't?). Nobody wins until somebody backs down. Whoever backs down pays costs. If the surrounding people back down and start treating the Roma well, the R…

Your premise is based on the assumption of something approaching power equity. The Roma have zero clout in this situation— they can only, primarily, affect their own circumstances, and considering that people are intentionally blocking their access to the economy, they can't even do that very effectively. This isn't two equal weights pushing against each other, it's one sitting on top of the other and blaming them for the fact that they're being sat on.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#226

Post by EB-Barrington »

chimen wrote: post #185
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

"if the public found out a Gypsy was working in the kitchen, most people would never dine at that restaurant" - I don't dig that, it's a lie. I live just two hundred miles north in Romania and we have our own communities here - bigger even. The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that. They either steal or avoid work whenever possible. Most criminal gangs are by gypsies and most stealin…

Saying they "they steal or avoid work whenever possible" is that demonstrably a (racist) lie?

When so many people have the "belief" that Gypsy/Roma steal because that's just what they do, it's nice to see in reality this is simply not true. Counterpoint provided by EVN, the Austrian electrical company who provides services to Stolipinovo:

"As a result of the project, the average monthly payment rate for (Stolipinovo) electricity customers rose from 3% to 85%. At the same time, network losses from the low voltage power grid were reduced from 40% to 5%."

Source: https://www.evn.at/EVN-Group/Verantwortung/CSR-Strategie/Sta...

BTW, the best examples of Roma include Presidents of large populous countries.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#228

Post by [deleted] »

1024core wrote: post #201
fierarul wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no comparison to how blacks were treated in America, we are not barbarians. There's no colored bathrooms and stuff like that. They have all the legal right as any citizen to own propert, start companies, hire others, etc. Further more there a lot of positive discrimination by guaranteeing them seats in Universities, etc.

> There's no comparison to how blacks were treated in America, we are not barbarians. There's no colored bathrooms and stuff like that. At least in America now there are laws specifically disallowing discrimination against blacks and minorities. But it appears in Romania and the rest of Eastern Europe there is still widespread discrimination against the Roma. Looks pretty barbaric to me!

[deleted]

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#229

Post by pmoriarty »

nickpp wrote: post #216
pmoriarty wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same racist swill has been slung at nearly every minority and immigrant group. People of Asian descent were accused of being dirty, so were black people, so were Irish and Italian immigrants, Mexicans, Indians, and of course Native Americans. Their poverty was thrown in their face, as so was their lack of education (which was often mandated by law or other forms of discrimination). Now in the US Irish and Italian…

Do you know anything about Romas and their culture, do you know any Roma person? Because your comment talks about Asians, Irish, Italians, Mexicans, Indians and others but not about Gypsys at all. "Lynchings, pogroms, and gas chambers" - are you serious?! What world do you live in? And please check yourself with that racial hate on gypsy culture. Their culture is dark, mysterious, romantic, nomadic, wonderful and bea…

"please check yourself with that racial hate on gypsy culture"

Point out one single thing. One thing I said that in any way, even the slightest, showed any kind of hate, racial or otherwise towards gypsy culture.

You can't. Because there isn't anything.

And if what I said in the post you replied to isn't enough, have a look at the rest of my comments in this thread. I'm against racism, not for it.

"Lynchings, pogroms, and gas chambers" - are you serious?! What world do you live in?"

Yes, I'm serious. Wake up to the 20th fucking century. That is the real world, and we're not so very far away from it. Might be going back to it some time soon, given the way right wing nationalism, xenophobia, and racism has been gaining ground all over the world.

Gypsies, by the way, were themselves victims in the Holocaust. If you are as much a fan of gypsies and gypsy culture as you appear to be, that should be of concern to you, as they, like every other minority and persecuted group are under threat from racism and xenophobia.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#230

Post by chimen »

mariusor wrote: post #217
bluepoint wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for saying what needs to be said. My impression as well is that they just mind their own business and they do not want to be integrated, but merely prefer to coexist in a parasitic form and tied to their own community more than anything else. They have their own culture and traditions which they vigorously isolate from whatever place they live in. Framing the issue as just racism and discrimination does not ca…

> We are talking about a community of people that appears in Europe in the 9th century and they keep their cultural identity ever since Well, let's not forget that gypsies have been slaves for most of their existence in Romania and it's been less than 200 years since slavery has been abolished and they've been freed. Most Romanians conveniently forget this part when justifying their racism.

You make 0 sense stop babling with your slavery "Wikipedia" quotes. Life is not Wikipedia - we don't have slaves here. We're in 2020 nobody here cares about what happened 100 years ago more than for historic reference. We also slaved for the Ottomans during the same periods that you're quoting but you don't see me going into their country to do what they do here, in Austria, Spain, Italy or somewhere else.

Leave Wikipedia alone, come visit Bucharest, sit at the central train station for an hour and I'll show you 9th century "cultural identity" my friend.

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