Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

robdobson.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 317 posts

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#251

Post by crooked-v »

flal_ wrote: post #55
imhoguy wrote: post #25

I was considering "smart" home active lightining stuff but finally went with 120% wires (some extra wires left for some future needs, double lamps etc) and traditional 2 state mechanical switches. It is not about money but maintenance burden. I can't imagine where would be my marriage when I was gone for some week long business trip and all that "smart" stuff had failed that time for my family. So far for 8 years of…

This. Every "smart" switch should also act/fallback as a physical analog switch any way. I don't understand why that's not the case... Edit : plus I don't want to pull out my phone or whatever device to switch the goddam light on

Well, there's two different types of smart switch:

- The first type isn't actually connected to wall power, and is basically just a small remote that tells your lighting to turn on/off.

- The second type is connected to the wall power, and works perfectly fine as a normal wall switch and controls the lights in the same way. Along with being a normal wall switch, it's a receiver and can receive commands from elsewhere (including the first type of smart switch) to trigger the normal wall switch functionality.

The second type is an easy retrofit for existing homes with lots of lights, but doesn't play nice with smart bulbs that need to be always on for advanced functionality (like having automatic step-up/step-down lighting levels at sunrise/sunset).

At the moment I feel like the best use of the first type are switches that fit neatly over normal hardwired wall switches (like the Lutron Aurora), or adding a spacer (see https://www.shapeways.com/product/35B9F36RD/philips-hue-dimm... for one example) so that your smart switch can just be popped off to access the normal hardware.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#252

Post by WalterBright »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #250
walshemj wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did use the correct wiring standard T-568B ? and the runs where < 90m

> and the runs where What happens if you somewhat exceed the 100m limit? The only sources I can find boil down to just don't do that but I can't find a chart showing what happens to performance/frame loss. Would it help to have a heavily shielded cable?

It may work if you run it over RG6 coax.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#253

Post by gorbachev »

abstractbarista wrote: post #246

Wow, this guy is either willfully ignorant of ZWave technical realities, or just doesn't have as much knowledge in the realm as he purports to have. Basically every gripe listed has to do with using old original ZWave devices. If you started a 150-node mesh today with strictly ZWave+ devices, an Aotec ZWave hub, and perhaps Home Assistant to control and automate it all, you'd have a much more consistently positive ex…

The thing that stuck out to me in that article was complaining about failures.

I would think, if you have 150 components of anything, you're going see failures on a fairly consistent pace, especially as time goes by.

For example, I'm replacing LED lights that were supposed to last for decades every 6 - 18 months in my house, and they aren't even the smart kind.

The one thing I'm not happy about my small z-wave setup is the HomeAssistant upgrade cycle breaking things way too often. It's gotten better in the past year or so, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to see that happen again in the future. Definitely would not recommend HA for anyone who doesn't like tinkering.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#254

Post by sitharus »

abstractbarista wrote: post #246

Wow, this guy is either willfully ignorant of ZWave technical realities, or just doesn't have as much knowledge in the realm as he purports to have. Basically every gripe listed has to do with using old original ZWave devices. If you started a 150-node mesh today with strictly ZWave+ devices, an Aotec ZWave hub, and perhaps Home Assistant to control and automate it all, you'd have a much more consistently positive ex…

Due to regional frequencies ZWave products can cost a lot more outside the US. For example here in New Zealand due to the AU/NZ frequency region you'd be lucky to find a basic switch for less than NZ$80, which is around US$55. Typically they're over NZ$100.

On the plus side not using 2.4Ghz means they're a lot more reliable in urban areas.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#255

Post by biktor_gj »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #250
walshemj wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did use the correct wiring standard T-568B ? and the runs where < 90m

> and the runs where What happens if you somewhat exceed the 100m limit? The only sources I can find boil down to just don't do that but I can't find a chart showing what happens to performance/frame loss. Would it help to have a heavily shielded cable?

It depends a lot on cable quality, what you have on either side and the connectors in between.

At work we had to repurpose a pair 170ish meter cat 6 cables for some cameras and it has worked nicely for three years (with PoE even). We tried again with a 100m cable rated for exterior (plus female + patch cords) and it wouldn't even link at 100mbps

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#256

Post by robomartin »

WalterBright wrote: post #56

I wouldn't buy a house with such a system in it, and I doubt anybody else will, either. Who wants to become an expert on these systems just to turn the lights on? Not a chance. I considered these systems when my house was built, and am very glad I didn't get them. I turn the switch on, the lights go on, I turn it off, the lights go off. I replace a bulb now and then. That's it! I'm very happy with it. But what I did…

I did the same thing twenty years ago, when my house was built. I ran 2 CAT5 and 2 RG6 to every corner of every room. Some areas got more. For example the garage has 12 CAT5 feeds distributed between three walls. Everything goes to a standard 19 inch EIA rack in the garage and is terminated and labelled on patch panels.

Rather than bring out the connections in each room, I use a toner to find the feeds and only bring out what I need when I need it.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#257

Post by folmar »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #250
walshemj wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did use the correct wiring standard T-568B ? and the runs where < 90m

> and the runs where What happens if you somewhat exceed the 100m limit? The only sources I can find boil down to just don't do that but I can't find a chart showing what happens to performance/frame loss. Would it help to have a heavily shielded cable?

It helps to have a good combination of hardware on both ends. Some switches happily do 200-300m but others don't.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#258

Post by crooked-v »

gorbachev wrote: post #253
abstractbarista wrote: post #246

Wow, this guy is either willfully ignorant of ZWave technical realities, or just doesn't have as much knowledge in the realm as he purports to have. Basically every gripe listed has to do with using old original ZWave devices. If you started a 150-node mesh today with strictly ZWave+ devices, an Aotec ZWave hub, and perhaps Home Assistant to control and automate it all, you'd have a much more consistently positive ex…

The thing that stuck out to me in that article was complaining about failures. I would think, if you have 150 components of anything, you're going see failures on a fairly consistent pace, especially as time goes by. For example, I'm replacing LED lights that were supposed to last for decades every 6 - 18 months in my house, and they aren't even the smart kind. The one thing I'm not happy about my small z-wave setup…

At that scale, personally, I'd really want to just be looking at good dimmable LED bulbs, and put any 'smart' hardware purely into the wall switches, so that there are far fewer devices to worry about.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#259

Post by BennyInc »

fyfy18 wrote: post #94

Does anyone here have any experience with KNX? It seems like the best wired system (without being locked into a single manufacturer), but from what I understand it's expensive and not aimed at DIYers. For context I'm in the process of building a house and like OP am considering Shelly modules, but it seems a bit silly to go wireless when I am doing everything from scratch.

We built our house with KNX this year. While our electrician did all the wiring, I did the programming myself. It has a steep learning curve, but if you're in IT, you'll probably get the hang of it pretty quickly. The system is very robust and offers a lot of flexibility. Almost all our componenents are from MDT (https://www.mdt.de/EN_Start.html). They build really great products and are quite affordable. Compared with components from other manufacturers we use (Theben, Weinzierl, Steinel) I think their applications and manuals are also far superior.

I have since connected the system to my home assistant installation, and enjoy the added flexiblity.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#260

Post by slavik81 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #250
walshemj wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did use the correct wiring standard T-568B ? and the runs where < 90m

> and the runs where What happens if you somewhat exceed the 100m limit? The only sources I can find boil down to just don't do that but I can't find a chart showing what happens to performance/frame loss. Would it help to have a heavily shielded cable?

The 100m eithernet distance restriction used to be to ensure that if two machines tried to start talking on the same line, they would hear the noise from the other before they finished sending their packet, and could therefore know there was a transmission error.

That is, at least, what was described to me in Computer Networks I back in 2006. I'm sure things have changed as we've moved to always using full-duplex wiring and fully-switched networks.

Post reply on HN