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Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

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Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#161

Post by to11mtm »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #9
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #4

Apologies if this is covered in the article, which I can't get to, but what is he doing to make amends? Or is this just empty, placatory words?

Cynically I just think he wants to play ball with the Biden administration now that they’re talking a big talk about working with republicans.

I'd think there are a few things going on;

- Parts of both the right and the left would rather not repeat the experience they have had over the last few years. While part of me thinks that the Koch businesses did pretty well during the Trump administration, the relative chaos of his presidency likely didn't let them do a lot of -effective- lobbying.

- Speaking of businesses. Koch Industries historically has had Petroleum and Paper as their Cash Cows. With all of the attention on global warming, as well as their track record on lobbying, Yes I would absolutely agree they are trying to play nice.

- That said, I did find it interesting to note that Koch Industries has fully acquired Infor as of this year. For those unfamiliar, it's a player in the ERP scene and based on the people that I've worked with from there and their stories, probably a pretty good product in that space. So -maybe- they are in fact seeing the writing on the wall and trying to move to more sustainable markets. we shall see.

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#162

Post by eghad »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #148
anarazel wrote: post #2

Main Koch PAC: https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/detail.php?cmte=... Total Independent Expenditures: $41,016,106 For Democrats: $92,936 Against Democrats: $8,887,525 For Republicans: $32,035,645 Against Republicans: $0 Koch industry donations: https://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=Koch+Industr... Edit: Added link showing recent Koch Industry donations

That’s actually not very much compared to someone like Bloomberg.

The Koch's political funding goes far beyond just this one PAC fyi. Their funneling of millions into the Federalist Society and its individual causes serving as just one example that has had an outsized negative influence on the health of American democracy.

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#163

Post by colinmhayes »

chmod600 wrote: post #158
colinmhayes wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but partisanship is getting much worse. The precedent has now been set to completely reject any nomination from the opposing party. That will lead to even more partisanship as nominating "moderates" no longer makes sense. We're in for a future of nothing but Alito's and Thomas's.

That's partisanship of Congress, not the Supreme Court. When it comes down to real decisions by SCOTUS, they usually come out more moderate and narrow than you might imagine.

In the past that has been true. But if every confirmation from now on is as partisan as Alito and Thomas are(who as far as I'm aware almost never rule against republican causes) that will soon cease to be the case.

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#164

Post by arshbot »

cwhiz wrote: post #140
colinmhayes wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that changes how much the Koch's donated to climate change deniers.

It changes my evaluation of the claim, which is sourced by Greenpeace. In the long run I have no doubt that Greenpeace will have caused more damage than the Koch family. We could have clean energy right now if it weren’t for the decades of nuclear fear mongering, and the Koch family isn’t even opposed to nuclear.

Is this a troll? Comparing a single point on greenpiece's agenda to literally hundreds of millions of dollars Koch dollars to climate change deniers as a whole are simply incomparable.

Just in case this is somehow contestable, let me highlight a few points

* Climate change deniers oppose solutions that don't involve oil/gas/coal - this means nuclear power * Koch funding > greenpiece funding * greenpeice didn't start nuclear fear mongering, pro-oil lobbyists did - AKA climate change deniers.

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#165

Post by chmod600 »

jaggederest wrote: post #159
chmod600 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Republican-appointed justices joining the Democrat-appointed justices in an opinion. Are you saying all nine are conservatives?

Are any of them advocating the seizure of the means of production for the workers? Abolish the state or private property? Devolve control into local worker's councils or other non-hierarchical means of decision-making? The US, in general, does not have any non-conservative judiciary. Stare decisis by itself ensures that there is a strong conservative streak in the available pool of jurists. So yes, the Supreme court…

The original claim was that thr Supreme Court has become highly partisan. The fact that justices switch sides and join with appointees of the opposite party is evidence against that claim.

Now you're bringing up a different claim, which is that the two major parties don't really represent a variety of ideas. That's a fine claim to make, but it doesn't contradict my point.

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#166

Post by [deleted] »

barry-cotter wrote: post #31
wombatmobile wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If rich people payed tax at the same rate as ordinary people, we'd be living in the same system without harmful extremes of inequality.

This isn’t true. To take the US tax system as an example it’s much more progressive than the flat tax starter you’re describing, where all income is taxed at the same rate. This does not stop inequality. > In 2016, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers—those with adjusted gross incomes (AGI) below $40,078—earned 11.6 percent of total AGI. However, this group of taxpayers paid just 3 percent of all income taxes in 2016.…

[deleted]

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#167

Post by watwut »

jrumbut wrote: post #154
ceilingcorner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s actually not very much compared to someone like Bloomberg.

The interesting aspect here is not so much the amount as it is the one-sidedness. It shows Koch is still very actively making the same mistake.

Now that Trump lost, I want to be seen as the good one. Tho I also want to actually do the same thing I have done before.

I mean, these guys are all sociopaths, so what should one expect?

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#168

Post by wombatmobile »

barry-cotter wrote: post #31
wombatmobile wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If rich people payed tax at the same rate as ordinary people, we'd be living in the same system without harmful extremes of inequality.

This isn’t true. To take the US tax system as an example it’s much more progressive than the flat tax starter you’re describing, where all income is taxed at the same rate. This does not stop inequality. > In 2016, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers—those with adjusted gross incomes (AGI) below $40,078—earned 11.6 percent of total AGI. However, this group of taxpayers paid just 3 percent of all income taxes in 2016.…

> it’s much more progressive than the flat tax starter you’re describing

No, "flat tax" is not what I'm describing or advocating.

Did you know that Warren Buffet paid a total tax rate of 17.7%, whilst the average tax rate for ordinary American office workers in his office was 32.9%?

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#169

Post by akudha »

karaterobot wrote: post #155
akudha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw parts of the speech and it was crazy. This is why appointing judges for life makes zero sense to me. If I become a supreme court judge at 45 and live to 75, I have a full three decades to change the direction of the country forever. This is very very scary. There should be a term limit for everyone in government like presidents do - mayors, congressmen, senators, judges...

The reason Supreme Court justices are appointed for life is so they are independent. That cuts both ways, protecting both people I agree with, and people I disagree with from having their verdicts influenced by outside forces. Sometimes this is inconvenient for me, but on the whole I prefer it over the alternative. The key is to hold the people who nominate and confirm these justices to account, since they are electe…

Can’t we do long terms (10-15 years) then? Instead of life, which could be as much as 40 years in some cases

Re: Charles Koch Says His Partisanship Was a Mistake

#170

Post by specialist »

eghad wrote: post #162
ceilingcorner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s actually not very much compared to someone like Bloomberg.

The Koch's political funding goes far beyond just this one PAC fyi. Their funneling of millions into the Federalist Society and its individual causes serving as just one example that has had an outsized negative influence on the health of American democracy.

More than amount, I'm impressed by the strategy, focus, and long term commitment. They've played 4D chess while my Democrats are amnesiacs still trying to grasp checkers.
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