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Why I teach vim

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Re: Why I teach vim

#131

Post by mxuribe »

apta wrote: post #59
Rainymood wrote: post #38

Why I started to use Vim 5 years ago. I was coding a lot and I realised most of my work was editing code as text. So I figured, why not become really freaking good at it? Vim has a steep learning curve because it's a mental paradigm shift. I personally would recommend it to everyone because although no-code is taking off, most of the developers are still editing text. Sharpen that saw!

> no-code is taking off I don't see any evidence for that.

There are many aspects underlying digital transformations that large enterprises are undergoing...among the many, is to empower more "citizen developers" with tools that are lower-code and no-code. (I'm not convinced that no-code is a great thing just yet...but not because of the tools, rather the mindset...so we'll see how the next generation adopt these no-code tools...or not). Within these transformations, the premise of "no code" is becoming bigger and more popular...so if you're not seeing it yet, you will soon enough more and more. Not that my following note is a large representation, but when i was applying for a new job during latter 2019/early 2020, over 90% of the jobs that i applied to made mention of some sort of "digital transformation", and no-code/low-code goes part and parcel with those types of efforts. Again, low volume of data, and biased towards mid- and large-sized enterprises...but, it is a thing for sure.

Re: Why I teach vim

#132

Post by NineStarPoint »

leppr wrote: post #99
dan00 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It continues to surprise me why people have such strong opinions about someone else's editor choice. I think because people identify themselves too much with their editor, programming language or whatever else choice. Everyone wants to think of themselves as the smart ones, only making objective rational choices, so everyone else making other choices has to be stupid. If now someone criticises their choice or argue…

There is a very rational and not emotion-driven incentive to spread your subjective preferences. For vim: plug-in development effort. Nowadays we have to recycle VSCode ones because Vim is seen as too niche to develop for it directly. For vegan: meal availability in shop and restaurants. For Android vs iOS: app availability. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28820444-the-elephant-in... (edit: I'm basically paraphra…

Vi also benefits a ton from being installed pretty much everywhere. If you use the default vi keybinds you rarely have to rethink your muscle memory for actions.

Re: Why I teach vim

#133

Post by notsureaboutpg »

amagumori wrote: post #82

More so than even the choice of editor itself, I think the biggest argument for vim or emacs, especially for students, is that you “live in” the *nix cli. The amount of stuff you soak up being a unix tool user is just night and day compared to using sublime text or something. Because using a cli text editor implicitly sets you on this path of learning through the command line. So you start with cding and lsing around…

100% agree with this sentiment.

As a student, using emacs was part of the big push to get me to live in the cli and explore and love that world.

Now I use graphical IDEs, and all sorts of tools, but I appreciate the power of cli and am not scared of it (and I went into college being almost computer-illiterate). That foundation is key and very important

Re: Why I teach vim

#134

Post by jez »

vulcan01 wrote: post #125

I started programming about 5-6 years ago (I'm a high school student). I started with VSCode, but about 1.5 years ago I switched to Vim for the simple reason that I wanted to live in the terminal. Unlike some other commenters here, I didn't know anyone else who used Vim (or Emacs for that matter), so I learned on my own... (:help is actually good in Vim, unlike many help menus in other software). vimtutor does a grea…

I have a pretty similar story. I was in senior year of high school and one of the colleges I was applying to had a “sleeping bag weekend” where you could sign up to stay overnight with a random CS freshman in the dorms and stroll the campus.

I saw someone working on their homework and their terminal had colored text and it blew my mind (I had only ever seen cmd.exe using black and white with that ugly font).

The summer between senior year of high school and starting college I installed Ubuntu and googled that program called “vim” that freshman had demoed to me. From there it was just like you say: vimtutor and reading :help pages, and now almost 10 years later I can’t imagine trading Vim for anything.

Re: Why I teach vim

#135

Post by pkulak »

paradox_hunter wrote: post #111

What most people forget when they argue against learning vim is that vim is more that just a text editor, it's a whole new philosophy. Once you learn it, you can find it almost everywhere. Learning vim key-bindings was the first thing I did after learning to touch-type, and now I use the same key-bindings on VSCode, Intellij, a remote server I am SSHed into and with the help of Vimimum, even chrome! And if ubiquity i…

Exactly this. Vim is special because it's what we've all agreed on as a standard for modal editing. Luckily, it's also pretty darn good, but that's secondary. Learning one set of commands that can then be used across editors, operating systems, and even terminals is amazing.

Re: Why I teach vim

#136

Post by waffletower »

vim is not for everyone. The cartoon poking fun at Emacs chording doesn't resonate with me at all. The statefulness at the core of Vim is maddening for me, where Emacs chords, perhaps because I have been a musician, are relatively easy for me.

Re: Why I teach vim

#137

Post by adembudak »

fergie wrote: post #8

"I wish I could say I agonized over all the options at the time and decided vim was the best pedagogical solution, but the reality of the situation was that vi was what I used in college because my father taught me vi" We dont talk about this much, but many of us hardcore Vi/Emacs users have had this knowledge imparted to us from a mentor. Thats probably why the use of Vi/Emacs is much higher in established tech envi…

Actually the gatekeeper is what they call themselves as "mentor", not the tool users.

Re: Why I teach vim

#138

Post by Geminidog »

bananamerica wrote: post #120
Geminidog wrote: post #3

I really wish there was a batteries included vim-like console editor with all the power of the jet brains suite of IDEs and convenience and lightness of vim. As it stands right now I end up using both an IDE and vim. Maybe emacs is the answer but honestly if I look past all the yak-shaving to get emacs to the power level of an IDE does it really get to the point where it has everything that say CLion has?

Emacs is not an IDE, it’s a multipurpose tool with many of the same features commonly associated with IDEs. Spacemacs and Doom Emacs (my recommendation) are highly useful distributions that make a lot easier to achieve that goal. But, even so, Emacs will still not be an actual IDE like those made by JetBrains. You sacrifice some specificity for a world of flexibility. An IDE-like Vim would be a negation of everything…

>Emacs is not an IDE

No it's not. Why are you telling me something I never said? I believe you are utterly mistaken to believe that I hold this opinion.

>If you really need an IDE, just use one. >I don’t see any point in that.

You don't see the point because you completely missed the point.

I want an IDE that is as lightweight as vim/emacs and as powerful as a Jetbrains IDE and lives on the console.

So right now if I "just use" an IDE it's not lightweight as it likely runs on the JVM, I can't fire it up on a console when I'm ssh-ed into a server.

If I fire vim up on a server I can't get any code highlighting or code following or integrated graphical debugging without a lot of yak-shaving and even after I do the yak-shaving it's still not done as well.

I want both on one app. Now you may not like this idea, you may be opposed to it. But this is what I'm asking for and this is my opinion. I respect your opinion but please don't tell me to "just use" an IDE when that is not the topic of the conversation.

Re: Why I teach vim

#139

Post by hotsauceror »

elygre wrote: post #108
bitcoinmoney wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link to the cheat sheet and coffee mug?

Googling for “vim coffee mug” provides reasonable hits.

The second hit includes a CafePress mug where the keyboard navigation diagram is wrong. So maybe they’re not all equal.

https://www.cafepress.com/mf/54286678/hjkl-vim-navigation_mu...

Re: Why I teach vim

#140

Post by GreenWatermelon »

paradox_hunter wrote: post #111

What most people forget when they argue against learning vim is that vim is more that just a text editor, it's a whole new philosophy. Once you learn it, you can find it almost everywhere. Learning vim key-bindings was the first thing I did after learning to touch-type, and now I use the same key-bindings on VSCode, Intellij, a remote server I am SSHed into and with the help of Vimimum, even chrome! And if ubiquity i…

chrome? how?
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