"Hurray for death"

I agree that celebrating the death of a human being is disturbing. I like to think that the celebration was a celebration of what this means in terms of the warn on terror. We all know that it Al Qaeda wasn't just Bin Laden himself and that absolute victory won't be achieved until all of Al Qaeda is stopped, but removing Bin Laden is a huge step in the process of achieving that goal.

Re: "Hurray for death"

#6

Post by TomOfTTB » Tue, May 03, 2011, 3:23 PM UTC

Here's a question for anyone who thinks the same way as this blogger: If the news had been "Osama Bin Laden has been captured" don't you think the same celebrations would have taken place? I'm 99.9% sure they would have.

Another question: Do you think the U.S. wanted Bin Laden dead when they did this? I doubt it. He's an intelligence gold mine alive while he's nothing but a martyr that strengths the other side if he's dead. So there's almost no chance we set out to kill him.

So in the end this isn't "an eye for an eye" and it isn't blood lust.

Re: "Hurray for death"

#7

Post by jtheory » Tue, May 03, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

jrsmith1279 wrote: post #5

I agree that celebrating the death of a human being is disturbing. I like to think that the celebration was a celebration of what this means in terms of the warn on terror. We all know that it Al Qaeda wasn't just Bin Laden himself and that absolute victory won't be achieved until all of Al Qaeda is stopped, but removing Bin Laden is a huge step in the process of achieving that goal.

Was removing bin Laden, in fact, a huge step in the process of achieving that goal? Was it a step at all?

Putting two bullets through bin Laden's head (and then singing & cheering about it very publically) doesn't seem to me like it will cause the large numbers of people who think very poorly of the US to change their minds.

Will they really be more convinced, now, that the US is a place of justice, due process and lawfulness, freedom and all that?

Bin Laden was a leader, but he only succeeded because there were plenty of people to lead who felt as he did. I don't think he would have hung up his hat if he had peeked into the future and found that he would be martyred by the US military.

There are already other leaders, and they aren't likely to find the fear of eventual martyrdom terribly intimidating either.

Re: "Hurray for death"

#8

Post by jrsmith1279 » Tue, May 03, 2011, 3:32 PM UTC

TomOfTTB wrote: post #6

Here's a question for anyone who thinks the same way as this blogger: If the news had been "Osama Bin Laden has been captured" don't you think the same celebrations would have taken place? I'm 99.9% sure they would have. Another question: Do you think the U.S. wanted Bin Laden dead when they did this? I doubt it. He's an intelligence gold mine alive while he's nothing but a martyr that strengths the other side if he'…

Very true. He's dead because he resisted, not because that was the plan. The news is reporting that he attempted to 3 separate women as human shields before he was shot in the head. I'm not sure how true that is since the media does often make up stories, but if it is true then that's reason enough to kill him.

Re: "Hurray for death"

#9

Post by jtheory » Tue, May 03, 2011, 3:34 PM UTC

TomOfTTB wrote: post #6

Here's a question for anyone who thinks the same way as this blogger: If the news had been "Osama Bin Laden has been captured" don't you think the same celebrations would have taken place? I'm 99.9% sure they would have. Another question: Do you think the U.S. wanted Bin Laden dead when they did this? I doubt it. He's an intelligence gold mine alive while he's nothing but a martyr that strengths the other side if he'…

I'd have celebrated if the news had been "bin Laden" captured -- particularly if the end result would be that he would spend the rest of his life sitting around in prison, waiting to die peacefully of old age. No martyrdom, and an excellent vindication of American values & justice. That would have truly been a shot-not-fired heard 'round the world.

And of course, celebrating that is not blood-lust. But instead, we shot him in the head, and represents a failure (for the reasons you mention, but also because it's very much "an eye for an eye"), and celebrating that is much harder for me to do.

We'll have to wait and see what measures they took during the raid, to enable taking him alive, but from what I've read so far they didn't take any.