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Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#91

Post by dvtrn »

mam2 wrote: post #90
dvtrn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/ No there's no "incredible harm" to the society, not more than any technological revolution in the past and it's bringing more good than bad, like any technological revolution. Incorrect at best, apathetic and myopic at worst: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/01/21/137783/algorithm... https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm...

You think AIs are worst and more biased than some typical america judges ? Ill give you a big fat LOL. Any atrocity and injustice has been done at all scales by humankind. Ai will not amplify that and actually i think that well used, it could help fight them You are just choosing to see the wrong side of it because you think it makes you look woke.

You think AIs are worst and more biased than some typical america judges ?

Did I once say that they were?

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#92

Post by mam2 »

dvtrn wrote: post #91
mam2 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think AIs are worst and more biased than some typical america judges ? Ill give you a big fat LOL. Any atrocity and injustice has been done at all scales by humankind. Ai will not amplify that and actually i think that well used, it could help fight them You are just choosing to see the wrong side of it because you think it makes you look woke.

You think AIs are worst and more biased than some typical america judges ? Did I once say that they were?

I can read and my point stands: of course ai is biased, because people are. But on the long term it will make society better.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#93

Post by dvtrn »

mam2 wrote: post #92
dvtrn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think AIs are worst and more biased than some typical america judges ? Did I once say that they were?

I can read and my point stands: of course ai is biased, because people are. But on the long term it will make society better.

I can read

what I doubt are your abilities to actually comprehend.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#94

Post by NoOneNew »

ethbr0 wrote: post #83
NoOneNew wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that real world, physical business data is taken from what one can get, not what one would want. Yea, sorry, but part of your job in data sci is to collect the right data. Data doesn't magically exist and we are not stuck with what's out there. A data sci job is to figure this stuff out. Tech has a weird culture of not doing their job. Kind of like the Zip Recruiter ads. "Working as a hiring manager,…

Have you collected data from and deployed products to a 2000+ store environment?

Okay, how is my argument changed if I answer yes or no? Is what you're talking about a data sci's responsibility or not? If collecting, analyzing and deploying data in reports or db is too difficult for you, data sci isn't for you. I'm not telling them HOW to do their job. I'm clarifying that you have to DO the job if you signed up for it. Dont like it? Get out. We all screwed up by taking jobs we didnt like. Nothing wrong with that. Get out of the kitchen if you dont like the heat or the smell.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#95

Post by dmurray »

deng wrote: post #84
jeffreygoesto wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, it leaves the team behind if you use features that are too advanced. Makes collaboration hard if you have wildly diverging skills (in both ways). Also, it did in our case take you away so far from the bare metal, that the code was elegant, but slow. It did not play well with our static allocators and allocated/deallocated way too much, especially temporaries. You might i.e. check out talks like [0]. [0]…

I agree. Another thing to consider is portability. You might have to port your software to obscure platforms with bad C++ compilers where compiler bugs are not uncommon at all, so it's better to stay clear of more advanced features. Also, you might have a legacy system which does not have modern C++ compilers, so you might have to restrict yourself to C++03. Another thing is code size, so templates should be used jud…

These replies both don't seem like they describe someone with "excellent" C++ skills. Sounds more like someone who knows a lot of advanced features of the language, but doesn't make the correct tradeoffs considering portability and/or performance.

Maybe it could be that he didn't know all the requirements up front and his mediocre colleague accidentally wrote code that better suited the company's unstated requirements (e.g. portability to niche systems). But that's hardly the most likely explanation.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#96

Post by CinchWrench »

st1x7 wrote: post #24

I work as a data scientist and have some perspective on this. There's no boat to miss, you'll probably be fine. Just keep a couple of things in mind - The fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering. Depending on your background it might take years of additional studying. - There is a big oversupply of people for the junior-mid level data science jobs. There are more people who want to g…

>the fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering

So much this. If I have to interview another junior-level DS who has a MNIST project in their github and still somehow can't manage fizzbuzz or a fibonacci function I'm probably going to take up religious asceticism.

EDIT: I said junior, but I meant Senior. We're talking people with PhD's who claim to have done extensive software engineering in previous roles.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#97

Post by NoOneNew »

wenc wrote: post #88
NoOneNew wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that real world, physical business data is taken from what one can get, not what one would want. Yea, sorry, but part of your job in data sci is to collect the right data. Data doesn't magically exist and we are not stuck with what's out there. A data sci job is to figure this stuff out. Tech has a weird culture of not doing their job. Kind of like the Zip Recruiter ads. "Working as a hiring manager,…

You're both right. Sometimes we have to work with the data we have. Other times we have to create or buy the data we need. Some companies aren't experienced at building infra to collect data and don't know how to do it. Or their environment is too complex or expensive to sample data from. The data scientist's job in such cases is to do their best with what exists, show success and make a business case for investing r…

I agree with you too. I think it's a mix of exec and management dont fully grasp the job and its implications if you shortcut too much. At the same time, too many data sci are in it for the keyword/sexiness of the job and are not of the personality type to take hardline stands. Inexperience leads to a lack of trust from higher ups. A lack of backbone from the experienced results in performing more incompetence. Which results in more lack of trust. Experienced personnel leave, more inexperienced comes in and do things the cheap, shortcut, buy bad data way, plus no backbone to combat against this when seen... and you see how this can spiral into a shitshow that I've been noticing in some consulting projects I've been in.

But yes, data collection should be part of their job. I'm having a hard time understanding why the person who analyzes the data should have a good word at least in what data is collected.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#98

Post by kordlessagain »

CinchWrench wrote: post #96
st1x7 wrote: post #24

I work as a data scientist and have some perspective on this. There's no boat to miss, you'll probably be fine. Just keep a couple of things in mind - The fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering. Depending on your background it might take years of additional studying. - There is a big oversupply of people for the junior-mid level data science jobs. There are more people who want to g…

>the fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering So much this. If I have to interview another junior-level DS who has a MNIST project in their github and still somehow can't manage fizzbuzz or a fibonacci function I'm probably going to take up religious asceticism. EDIT: I said junior, but I meant Senior. We're talking people with PhD's who claim to have done extensive software engineeri…

Try filtering them on their specific ability to visualize things. My neighbor was 80+ year old math guy who could see graphs of equations in his head.

My hypothesis is that good stats people probably don't visualize (Aphant) or visualize very specific types of data in a unique way. Without visualization, people tend to fall back to logical thinking - or emotional thinking, depending.

For example, I have a friend who can look at 2D seismic data and see what the underground formation looks like in his mind, in 3D.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#99

Post by MakeUsersWant »

lmilcin wrote: post #62
st1x7 wrote: post #24

I work as a data scientist and have some perspective on this. There's no boat to miss, you'll probably be fine. Just keep a couple of things in mind - The fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering. Depending on your background it might take years of additional studying. - There is a big oversupply of people for the junior-mid level data science jobs. There are more people who want to g…

I don't exactly agree on why employers prefer PhDs even if not exactly in the field. Having PhD shows that you have committed to one field hard enough and long enough to be granted the title even if it is PhD in philosophy. Also, if you switch from another career try to figure out how you can use your past experience to differentiate yourself from other people. For example, I have studied theoretical math and I have…

Could you please say more about how you find maths-intense software engineering niches and projects? What niches are there?

I too am a pure maths PhD with a background in software, but I am somewhat disappointed with the data science world.

Re: Ask HN: Am I too late for the “Data Science” wave?

#100

Post by whoisburbansky »

kordlessagain wrote: post #98
CinchWrench wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the fundamental skills that you need are mathematics and software engineering So much this. If I have to interview another junior-level DS who has a MNIST project in their github and still somehow can't manage fizzbuzz or a fibonacci function I'm probably going to take up religious asceticism. EDIT: I said junior, but I meant Senior. We're talking people with PhD's who claim to have done extensive software engineeri…

Try filtering them on their specific ability to visualize things. My neighbor was 80+ year old math guy who could see graphs of equations in his head. My hypothesis is that good stats people probably don't visualize (Aphant) or visualize very specific types of data in a unique way. Without visualization, people tend to fall back to logical thinking - or emotional thinking, depending. For example, I have a friend who…

The person you are replying to seemed to be complaining about their lack of programming ability, not statistical ability, so how would this help in their situation?
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