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I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

robdobson.com

141–150 of 317 posts

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#141

I installed an automatic sprinkler system with several "regions". I struggled with that thing for years. Programming it required reading a hefty manual. The user interface was near the worst I'd ever seen (the worst is on my automated cat feeder). I was constantly repairing the lines, the heads, the valves, the control box. I'd winterize it, de-winterize it. The coyotes would chew on it. Finally I simply turned it of…

This is something that silicon valley gets right. Hardware isn't easy for inexperienced companies and there are a lot of companies out there that make excellent reliable hardware. It's all pointless though if that hardware is hard to use. There's sometimes bad engineering from Silicon Valley hardware startups, but at least the design is usually user oriented and has been iterated on.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in The Netherlands and probably other parts of Europe, you are not allowed to run electricity and network or phone cables through the same tubes. Also the number of wires allowed in a single tube is limited. Many houses have concrete walls, floors and ceilings, so you don't run extra tubes easily... Reconfiguring switches is next to impossible and via existing switch wires you can dim/switch the lights but not c…

Conduit isn't very common in US residential construction. Electricians will generally cut a hole in the drywall, drill a hole in the floor plate and tack the cabling to the framing.

In houses than are typically built with a wooden frame. From a European pov, that sounds like a recipe for fire.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#143
post #132

Can someone list productive smart lighting features? I mean: I get smart heating. I get smart ovens. But smart lighting? I can't think of non-gimicky functionality that can be solved by a occupancy sensors.

The main thing I like about smart lights is the concept of programmed “routines”. I have a large family so perhaps that makes it more beneficial.

Morning routines that run automatically:

- Turn on the bedroom lamps at a low dim level around the same time the alarm goes off. This provides a bit of light when you first wake up without being annoying.

- Turn off all exterior lights. Most are probably off anyway, but this catches any they might have been left on, or any that were scheduled to be on through the night.

- Turn up the nightlights / stair lights to 100%. In the dark winter months, this makes it comfortable to navigate from bedrooms and bathrooms without having to turn on the full hallway lights, which can be jarring and perhaps annoying to others who aren’t quite up yet. (A bit after sunrise these go off for the day).

- Turn on a few lights in the main living areas (kitchen).

Evening routines that run a bit after sunset:

- Turn on outside lights

- Turn on nightlights and stair lights at 50%.

- Turn on the bedside lamps at 50%. This provides a relaxing light level in the bedroom through the evening. Before the smart switches we never really seemed to use the lamps. (The hassle of walking to both sides of the bed and setting them at the right dim level I guess was just enough to prevent us from using them I guess).

Bedtime routines that run automatically:

- Turn off all but one exterior light.

The other thing I like is being able to control lights from my phone. When we are in the backyard playing with the kids on a late summer evening, we can turn on all the backyard lights without having to go back to the house. If the kids have left a bunch of lights on in the basement, they can be turned off with Siri “turn off all the basement lights”. I also like it from a security perspective “turn on all the outside lights” which would normally take walking all over the house to hit all the various switches.

I also have appreciated being able to add light switches literally wherever, with no wiring or holes in the wall. Want a bedroom light switch next to your bed? Peel and stick and you’ve got it, and from the outside it looks and acts exactly like a real switch. If you move the bed to the other wall one day, you just pull the switch off and stick it in the new location.

For a long time I resisted anything “smart” in my home. I found the added complexity more than offset any benefit. But with the lights, we can just use them as normal (all the switches look and act like they always did) but the automated routines add convenience and comfort while also reducing our energy usage.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#144

I wouldn't buy a house with such a system in it, and I doubt anybody else will, either. Who wants to become an expert on these systems just to turn the lights on? Not a chance. I considered these systems when my house was built, and am very glad I didn't get them. I turn the switch on, the lights go on, I turn it off, the lights go off. I replace a bulb now and then. That's it! I'm very happy with it. But what I did…

The easy solution is to have the intelligence in the lightbulbs the way Philips, Osram and IKEA did on their Zigbee based systems. I have all lights (100+) in the house on Zigbee but without changing any wiring. Only non standard is that I replaced all the wall switches with a variant that's electrically "always on" and sends a Zigbee command when pressed (and can be pulled out to access a traditional physical switch…

What Zigbee switches are you using?

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#145
my opinion: z-wave for lights only is not efficient - it mainly can give you dimming capability, no control over warm/cold lights or even color. plus everything is an unfortunate combination of wiring and rf. zigbee based lamps like hue or others are much better here.

however, for controlling things like heating or blinds I find it very effective in combination with sensors. It is quite simple for everone to do simple things, like setting schedule based target temperatures. and reasonably simple for a dev to do complicated things, e.g. to control blinds based on exact position of the sun around the year. plus you can always use actuators that work without the base controller, so the base controller is just an option.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#146
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crosstalk is when two wires are close together, one induces a voltage in the other (it's how transformers work). The trouble with house wiring is if you run a phone line parallel and close to an A/C line, it will induce a 60 cycle hum in the phone line, which will drive you utterly mad. The electrician was installing the cat3 phone wires in the same holes as the A/C wires. It was guaranteed to induce a hum. The corre…

Sorry should have been more clear; I'm an eletronics engineer so I know what crosstalk is, it's just that I didn't understand how this would be an actual problem with CAT5. Phone line, that's something else though. If an electrician had done it, it likely would have been 10 or 20x more. Hmm, that is like twice the amount one would typcially pay here. Still, don't froget the working hours you put in there :) plus the…

Indeed, UTP5 is more or less crosstalk immune within for practical uses, STP5+ moreover so.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#148
post #77

Stuff like this is the reason the only smart devices I have got so far are a Chromecast Audio, a Chromecast TV and a 2nd gen Google Home Mini (free from Spotify Premium). Those things are low impact if they don't work properly, and they do stop working with alarming regularity. I have spent less than £80 on the set up. The Home mini has trouble with my regional British accent. The Chromecasts are within 2m of my rout…

I don't think we'll start getting reliability like that until manufacturers 1) stop trying to hook them up to the cloud 2) default to wired and 3) implement failsafes (you can still turn off the light switch manually). Until then it's the internet of malware infested broken toasters.

There are vendors who do just that, in various combinations.

Hue uses non-wifi wired protocol and offline-first hub. Lacks failsafe though.

A local vendor does the above, but instead of "smart" lightbulbs, offers smart switches - which still operate as physical switches when directly used. But they don't have huge marketing or anything like that, they appear to mostly sell to integrators (with their gateway then being integrated into popular solutions like HomeKit etc.)

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#149

I wouldn't buy a house with such a system in it, and I doubt anybody else will, either. Who wants to become an expert on these systems just to turn the lights on? Not a chance. I considered these systems when my house was built, and am very glad I didn't get them. I turn the switch on, the lights go on, I turn it off, the lights go off. I replace a bulb now and then. That's it! I'm very happy with it. But what I did…

The easy solution is to have the intelligence in the lightbulbs the way Philips, Osram and IKEA did on their Zigbee based systems. I have all lights (100+) in the house on Zigbee but without changing any wiring. Only non standard is that I replaced all the wall switches with a variant that's electrically "always on" and sends a Zigbee command when pressed (and can be pulled out to access a traditional physical switch…

> I have all lights (100+)

Your house is massive or your castle is very tiny. Either way, that’s an usual amount of lightbulbs.

Re: I Ripped Out a £6k Lighting System

#150
post #132

Can someone list productive smart lighting features? I mean: I get smart heating. I get smart ovens. But smart lighting? I can't think of non-gimicky functionality that can be solved by a occupancy sensors.

The main reasons I use smart lights are in my kids rooms after they fall asleep I can turn them down/off, and we leave the living room light on and my spouse and I argue who needs to go down to turn it off--now we don't argue!
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