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Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

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Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#151

Wow what happened to all the normal people? I am not depressed and never have been depressed. Life has never been easier or safer for most people and we have a poll result where 2/3rd of people are claiming to be clinically depressed?

Am put in mind of this quote: "All of us have sufficient fortitude to bear the misfortunes of others". Francois de La Rochefoucauld I see you're On Fire further down in the thread, helpfully whatabouting malaria or something to explain away our current crisis. I don't think most people wake up and immediately start praising their lucky stars that they aren't living during the Black Death or in some war-torn country i…

It is amazing you manage to read this all into my post. Of course life is hard for many people in the world, but things are getting better every year for the average person. This seems to not include the average HN poster who seems to be caught in a depressed funk.

Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to geek out, a fun fact about why one often feels like depression will last forever is due to memory compartmentalization. To most anyone thoughts that pop up in our head come out of a black hole, an unknown. What's actually happening is we're seeing something in the present moment (thinking memories in the present moment too) and that thing we're seeing causes an emotional response, often an unconscious one. Th…

you're quite right about this. although i would say that we do actually store memories in our bodies. this is where extended abuse and trauma really take their toll on people. think about shell shock in veterans. they train and train for combat. then they see combat and the trauma then embeds itself in the 'muscle memory' of training. then something random happens but triggers the muscle memory and the memories come…

>I'm not sure how to get the depression out of the muscle memory, but i do know we need to do a better job of getting people away from their trauma.

I know how, but it's a deep topic that a single comment on an online forum can barely begin to do justice.

First, I worry of a potential negative side effect of believing in muscle memory, regardless if it is or is not true. The concern is it could lead to the belief of static memory. Memory is impermanent and easy to change; you're not suck with it. So much so, there is a police interrogation technique that does just this to get innocent people thrown in prison. (I'm not kidding.)

How it works is they show a bunch of faces, one with the person they want to be found guilty to the victim. The victim says no to all of them or, "I don't know.." and then later the police come in with a new lineup of photos. All of the photos are different expect the person they want to be found guilty. Usually a second time is enough. The victim will recognize the person shown twice and announce, "It's them. They did it!" If not, they'll keep doing this until that is the eventual consequence. It usually only takes a few times.

One particular interesting study on stripping out memories (or muscle memory if you prefer) is how MDMA therapy works on PTSD. PTSD is a condition similar to anxiety, but different, in which they may have reoccurring nightmares of a horrific event, or if something reminds them of that event irl they may have a traumatic flashback. Clearly their old memories are causing them great distress. So how does this therapy work? Well, MDMA has a side effect of not being able to feel fight or flight on it, and it turns out our memory is read once, write many. This means the second we remember something, it gets erased from our long term memory. Our mind recalls the memory (processes it) and while processing it, it writes a new memory back to long term memory with its contents. On MDMA the fight or flight in the memories can not be processed, so what gets written back is a memory without the trauma attached to it.

Read once, write many has numerous side effects. For example, the very act of recalling a memory over and over again changes it. You can do this experiment on yourself by writing down a story, then recalling it in your memory by saying it out loud like you're telling someone that story. Each time you say it the memory will be modified. Keep going and after around 10 times some details should be obviously wrong. You can then compare this version to the old one to see yourself. It's a solo version of telephone game.

So you can alter your memories, you may be able to even find a way to strip the depression out when being hit over the face (Which you can.), but wait there's more.

How one responds to the present moment is a habit. Every response you will ever give is a habit, even to a new and unexpected situation. It's pretty entertaining to observe the variation of habits people have between cultures. In the US if something unexpected happens like on a hidden game show Americans might be like, "Whaaaaatt??" or might punch someone who startles them, or just in general Americans are very reactive. In the UK when something unexpected happens on a hidden game show they tend to freeze. Sometimes they look around, but they usually pause and wait. It's quite a different response.

Once we realize our responses to the present moment are habits, it's as simple (and as difficult) as changing those habits to new habits that are better suited. This can be as extreme as teaching someone with borderline personality disorder how to not freak out and start yelling when they fall in love with someone, to something more subtle like in your situation not responding with being depressed when life gives you a shitty day.

To change ones habits, they have to be aware of the causality. That is they have to see the present moment before their response and then have a planned alternative response. You always have to have an alternative response, as purely cutting out a habit is difficult, but replacing a habit is much easier. Once the cause (the present moment event) is caught before the response happens, a new habit can be put in. It is nearly instantaneous and a massive amount of mindfulness is needed. One way to cultivate this level of mindfulness is by meditating, which has the side effect of increasing mindfulness. This teaching of how to change ones habits to not have negative responses is a key ingredient to removing dukkah or psychological stress, but it is commonly translated to the word suffering. This is a Buddhist teaching (not the religion) which modern day psychology has picked up on. Enlightenment in Buddhism is the end of dukkah, so the end of all negative psychological responses to things. As you can see I can and am giving you a deep dive into this technique anyone can do with a bit of practice showing it's quite real. Enlightenment does not have to be mysterious. It can be grounded in science.

Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have certainly experienced many awful things in life, but I have not become depressed. Maybe I am just resilient, but I don’t think I am that unusual. It is interesting that the response to my post has been to vote it down to oblivion. I posted hoping to see if the 2/3rd clinical depressed number is just a self selecting aberration, or HN really has become this bad.

You may have a misconception of the causes of depression. I am sorry awful things have happened to you in life, but fortunately, as your example shows, negative external stimuli are not a 1:1 correlation with depression. Unfortunately, positive circumstances are also not a 1:1 correlation with the lack of depression. While stress, trauma, tragedy, loss, adversity may all push some people into depression, there are pl…

I am sceptical that 2/3rds of all people are clinically depressed. This really does not seems close to reality.

Thanks for the positive comments on my work. Yes I have been very lucky to have had the chance to work in some really interesting areas.

Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few members in my distant family died in the last few months. One of whom I was close with (grandparent) but it barely affected me negatively yet I had been forced into shell for months due to otherwise small things in the past. It's not the severity of the outcome. I recovered faster from those. I require medicine when that happens and the triggers are always small non obvious. Please don't judge people based on t…

I guess I am an optimist by nature and I certainly prefer to look at the positive rather than the negative. I am not sure it is helpful for most people to focus on the negatives in their lives rather than the positive. I have yet to see anyone’s life improved by brooding on what is wrong rather than what is right. I wasn’t actually judging anyone’s situation, just questioning how we have got to the situation where 2/…

Your post came off that way.

And yes, it is not helpful to look negatively. I think people with depression understand this too. They can't help it. If they had more control over their thoughts and life, it wouldn't be a disease or require medical treatment.

As per the link I posted in the comment, pessimism has been rising in developed and rich countries. So I wouldn't be surprised to find more pessimistic people on tech forums today. Tech filters out middle class people likely in developed countries or parts of the world. HN is dominated by Americans who have had a rough year. Protests, political unrest, they are currently leading in covid cases worldwide, etc. Other comments explain different reasons, I agree with them too so I won't repeat.

One thing I noticed is the rate of not depressed at all votes. It gradually increased towards late night in US.

Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#158

I don't felt the need to see a doctor about what I'm experiencing, so I'm not sure if what I have qualifies as depression. But over the past several months, it feels like my entire personality and being is a rug that has been pulled out from underneath me. I'm no longer the driven and interested person that I used to be. I struggle to sit down and work - my brain feels scattered and no matter how much I sleep and res…

It's not depression, it's the society tumbling down the hill straight to hell, my friend, and your subconscious understanding of that fact.

Thanks for pointing this out. It can be society as a whole, or simply the situation we end up in, individually. Or even both, in which case it would rather be surprising and in a way symtomtic of mental illness to NOT suffer from depression.

One thing interesting about society and its effect on individuals mental state, is it the absolute rating of a society's sanity (however we could rate that) or rather the delta between present and past, along with the perceived prospect of its future delta? You are perhaps touching on this as you are writing going "down" the hill. We might still be at the top of the Mountain, but that's hardly relevant.

Re: Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

#159
I was a heroin addict for five years and I got clean around this time two years ago. This is always a difficult time of year for me: my father died around this time when I was 12-years-old; I live in the northern latitudes so it's dark all the time; and since it's around the time I got clean I start getting bad cravings again.

I want to buy a smart trainer for my bike but they're all sold out at the moment. I'm too scared to ride on the roads at this time of year: it's permanent twilight, the roads are always wet which disguises potholes, and there are dead leaves everywhere.

I know that exercise really helps, so I hope I can get that smart trainer soon. I've been going for short walks but I really need that kind of exercise that leaves you struggling to think afterwards.

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