I'm not sure I agree. I've been seeking out jobs at less prestigious firms for ages but I started getting interviews only once I had Goldman on my resume. I've never would've had a seat at the table where I can try to achieve excellence if it wasn't for Goldman. I guess the author's argument makes sense for IT where barriers for entry are low, but almost every other industry worth getting into has high barriers for entry.
The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
71–80 of 325 posts
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#72I find two things to disagree with in this article. First is the premise that equally high compensation is offered elsewhere in each industry. I don't know about finance or consulting, but at least for FAANG it doesn't seem to be true. Second is the overlooked explanation that it's headroom - not prestige - that accounts for the difference. I'll provide an example that illustrates both points: me. When I went from Re…
I work in finance. The “Goldman discount” is well known. People will accept lower comp for that brand on their resume. Otherwise, the places you can really make the most money are at small private firms without public shareholders. There are so many cash machines out there with very little public scrutiny.
Generally people only seek at prestigious firms like Goldman early in their career and switch over to more obscure but lucrative opportunities: prop firms, pe, hf, etc.
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it surprising that people still consider FAANG prestigious, given that these companies collectively have probably 1-200,000 engineers in their employ. Even if they managed to perfectly select for the cream of the crop (they don't), that still has to be like 10-20% of all programmers/engineers in the US. Being top 20% isn't that impressive, and in reality they're probably mostly hiring from the top 30-40%.
Top 20% of one of the most intellectually challenging jobs in America, also if you exclude Amazon it is not 20%.
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the typical Harvard student, tech is better paying than consulting unless you are an extraordinarily successful consultant. > It’s not uncommon for people in consulting to be making $500k-$1m annually by the age of 40 This is not "uncommon" in FANG either (just take a look at the salary charts), and if anything can be reached earlier. > there was a golden era of startups capturing value from the old guard, but th…
5 year EV is much lower in tech than finance for Harvard grads. I'm not sure ab consulting. Consulting and tech have similar starting salaries, but consider finance/hedge fund engineer starting tc is about 3-4x tech for top 3 grads rn.
Based on what? This is not true in my experience, unless you're comparing finance tech to FANG tech, in which case it is true. Moreover, at Harvard, some segment of those who go into finance are "connected" with higher paying finance jobs due to their parents/etc.
Consulting salaries are lower (sometimes substantially) than tech starting salaries.
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#75>Ambitious students seek out prestige thinking it is the missing ingredient to achieving their own excellence. In reality, they have it backward—prestige follows excellence. I'm not sure I agree. I've been seeking out jobs at less prestigious firms for ages but I started getting interviews only once I had Goldman on my resume. I've never would've had a seat at the table where I can try to achieve excellence if it was…
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#76> When we listen to prestige, we're often opting for a path of certainty, while foregoing whatever promising thing was just around the corner.
But it doesn't quite dwell on it as the important component of the answer that it truly is. Prestige and credentialism certainly have to do with peer pressure, but they also have a lot to do with risk reduction. And this is true on both sides of the equation.
If your job is to obtain a top 0.01% quality engineer, should you just hire from a top tier university? Probably not. That's not to say that a top 0.01% engineer wouldn't go to a top tier university. They well might. But it's not a very strong filter for that level of quality. What it is, however, is a very strong filter for say, top 30% quality.
When you hire from a top tier university, you aren't getting the very best. What you are getting is a very strong guarantee that someone is at least a certain level of quality. A Harvard or Stanford degree most certainly does not guarantee excellence. But it does guarantee a minimum standard of competence and work ethic. When you hire from one of these places, you can be reasonably certain that you are not hiring the human equivalent of a lemon.
The same is true on the flip side for an employee seeking jobs. If you go work at FAANG, one of the big three consulting firms, or Goldman, you are almost certainly not choosing the absolute best possible career path at that moment for yourself. What you are doing is selecting a career path that will be very good, with very high certainty.
In finance terms, these choices are optimal, because they maximize the Sharpe ratio of your career/hiring process. That is, they maximize the risk-adjusted return of your decisions. People who go to top tier universities have already demonstrated a preference for a lower risk path in life.
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#77Goldman, Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan have all moved down market and lead most IPOs these days. Everyone else is fighting for 30% or less of the fees. As a CEO, you can’t lose your job if they mess up your IPO. But if you choose Jefferies and they blow it, you can get fired. There is a term for this that is escaping me right now. There is also a potentially easier path to get an intro as the Goldman brand name carries…
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#78I find two things to disagree with in this article. First is the premise that equally high compensation is offered elsewhere in each industry. I don't know about finance or consulting, but at least for FAANG it doesn't seem to be true. Second is the overlooked explanation that it's headroom - not prestige - that accounts for the difference. I'll provide an example that illustrates both points: me. When I went from Re…
I work in consulting, and I’d say the top-end in consulting is still higher and much more of a safe bet. It’s not uncommon for people in consulting to be making $500k-$1m annually by the age of 40. If you’re a partner, compensation can be significantly higher than that; in the $2M-20M range. I think there was a golden era of startups capturing value from the old guard, but that era is largely over IMO. All of those t…
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think most people did ok. Enron had a lot of really smart people. Morally bankrupt, but very smart. No different than any of these big tech companies. People like money, smart people will be attracted to it. Companies like smart people so I don't think they will have a hard time getting another job.
I've interviewed several smart people from Palantir and naturally I did not hire them. They might as well wear a scarlet letter.
Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
5 year EV is much lower in tech than finance for Harvard grads. I'm not sure ab consulting. Consulting and tech have similar starting salaries, but consider finance/hedge fund engineer starting tc is about 3-4x tech for top 3 grads rn.
> 5 year EV is much lower in tech than finance for Harvard grads. I'm not sure ab consulting. Based on what? This is not true in my experience, unless you're comparing finance tech to FANG tech, in which case it is true. Moreover, at Harvard, some segment of those who go into finance are "connected" with higher paying finance jobs due to their parents/etc. Consulting salaries are lower (sometimes substantially) than…