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The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

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Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#41

Post by ceras »

bla3 wrote: post #21

> For the majority of Ivy Leaguers, the most impressive thing they've accomplished is achieving admission to their university. Is this a common view in the US? In central Europe, the view is that ivy leagues are for people who need external validation so much that they are willing to pay through the nose for it. This view explains the rest of the article too.

If your parents make median income or less, Ivy League schools are effectively free. Your parents have to earn quite a lot for you to pay sticker price.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#42

Post by jnwatson »

pmoriarty wrote: post #2

I find many of these companies the opposite of prestigious. They are shameful. It's a symptom of how screwed up this world is that people would actually want to work for them and consider it an honor to do so.

In my social group, working for Facebook in particular is definitely shunned.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#43

Post by sgerenser »

whimsicalism wrote: post #34
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t a problem we as Americans need to fix. It fixes itself. For instance, the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. By the time you’re making even low 6 figures, the idea of interacting with an Stanford grad who has done nothing of note with their education and makes something comparable to you is quaint. Generally speaking, distribution of US income as…

> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. Sorry, what? The average Ivy League graduate makes substantially more than your average non-Ivy graduate. I don't even understand what your second sentence is trying to say.

I believe he probably got the statistic mixed up. The average Ivy League graduate does indeed make more than the average non-ivy college graduate. But they make about the same (or are about as successful, can’t remember the exact statistic) as someone who got accepted to an Ivy but went elsewhere.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#44

Post by whimsicalism »

tmsh wrote: post #36

The reason people who drop out of prestigious schools to pursue projects become the most successful is because they are 0% concerned about credentialism for themselves. The minute you start hiding behind / pursuing opportunities because of social status is the minute you start your descent into laziness and lack of useful impact. Everything is a balance. I relate to how pursuing prestige in schools can lead to pursui…

> use Harvard or wherever for great learning,

There is literally 0 need for this. Use Harvard for:

a. the name on your resume

b. access to smart peers (even at Harvard, this takes searching, but if you're in the right classes is easy)

c. access to professors

That's pretty much it. You can learn the content just as well online.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#45

Post by emteycz »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #8
emteycz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they have control of the money. How do we cut them out?

Legislation and regulation.

Meh, I absolutely don't believe that's the way. That's how we get the market to halt.

I was thinking more of teaching business and management skills to engineers.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#46

Post by rconti »

I've always found prestige to be so strange. I suppose it helps that I went to smaller Jesuit school rather than some big top-tier Ivy or similar.

That said, I've kind of gone the opposite direction. I've always worked in tech companies, in production environments, for companies you may-or-may-not have heard of. I never understood why engineers from Big Name companies were considered so much 'better'.

Now I work at a big tech company you've heard of (but definitely not a FAANG), and I understand now. The professionalism, the thoughtfulness, ownership, and output they expect.. it really is another level from just showing up at work every day. I'm not saying 60 hour weeks, I'm just saying the caliber of work and collaboration. The job titles really are "worth" more than at the average company.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#47

Post by tudelo »

scarmig wrote: post #25
centimeter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it surprising that people still consider FAANG prestigious, given that these companies collectively have probably 1-200,000 engineers in their employ. Even if they managed to perfectly select for the cream of the crop (they don't), that still has to be like 10-20% of all programmers/engineers in the US. Being top 20% isn't that impressive, and in reality they're probably mostly hiring from the top 30-40%.

There are amorphous borders between programmer, developer, and software engineer, but there are roughly ~4 million "programmers/engineers" in the USA. So call it ~5%?

I personally would consider top 5 percent of any task to be the low bar of proficiency, so even that doesn't seem super impressive to me. But damn, the jobs pay well and wlb can be great (or terrible). I guess the weird part is that the process of getting hired is so different than the day to day work.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#48

Post by andrewmcwatters »

sgerenser wrote: post #43
whimsicalism wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. Sorry, what? The average Ivy League graduate makes substantially more than your average non-Ivy graduate. I don't even understand what your second sentence is trying to say.

I believe he probably got the statistic mixed up. The average Ivy League graduate does indeed make more than the average non-ivy college graduate. But they make about the same (or are about as successful, can’t remember the exact statistic) as someone who got accepted to an Ivy but went elsewhere.

No, I mean the actual starting salaries based on employment data from universities themselves tell us there’s only a marginal difference in those who graduate between the institutions.

If you look at the degrees themselves as a form of capital investment, Ivy League schools don’t translate into “paying off,” as it were.

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#49

Post by whimsicalism »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #20
notacoward wrote: post #6

I find two things to disagree with in this article. First is the premise that equally high compensation is offered elsewhere in each industry. I don't know about finance or consulting, but at least for FAANG it doesn't seem to be true. Second is the overlooked explanation that it's headroom - not prestige - that accounts for the difference. I'll provide an example that illustrates both points: me. When I went from Re…

I don’t know why the article’s author thinks prestige is about anything other than money/power (for the population as a whole). People would rather work at FAANG than Stripe because FAANG will get you a lot more pay and connections. And people know that, so they will value people from FAANG for it. But it comes from the root fact that FAANG makes a ton of net income per employee, same as some finance/consulting firms…

> People would rather work at FAANG than Stripe because FAANG will get you a lot more pay and connections

Pshh what? You work at FANG and think this?

Re: The Prestige Trap: finance, big tech, and consulting

#50

Post by wayoutthere »

shuckles wrote: post #24
wayoutthere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in consulting, and I’d say the top-end in consulting is still higher and much more of a safe bet. It’s not uncommon for people in consulting to be making $500k-$1m annually by the age of 40. If you’re a partner, compensation can be significantly higher than that; in the $2M-20M range. I think there was a golden era of startups capturing value from the old guard, but that era is largely over IMO. All of those t…

It is not uncommon for people in technology to be making $500k-$1m annually by 30, and the lifestyle is much better if you have outside commitments.

Consulting in particular really depends on the company. The big 4 will grind you to the bone, but boutiques often pay better and have much more reasonable expectations of time commitment. I don’t see consulting ever going back to the weekly travel model, and during the pandemic I work maybe 30 hours a week while pulling in the salary I do. Most of my work involves going to meetings, understanding complex business architecture and providing advice around niche topics while working within the politics of a various org. Pulling in a salary+bonus in this range with very little risk on my part.
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