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Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

theregister.com

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Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#91

Post by skizm »

mattlondon wrote: post #86

I wonder what people want out of these kind of lawsuits. If you can clearly identify exactly how much data is consumed, and you have a service plan that tells you exactly how much that data cost to use then the damages are precisely computable. So a judge can turn around and just award these people $4.72 in damages or whatever and case closed? What is the angle here, or is it just another "google-is-evil-but-i-still-…

Lawyers just bring up class action lawsuits to skim money off the payout. The individual payouts are usually so small barely anyone goes through the hassle of claiming them. The one positive is, at least it’s a small slap on the wrist for bad corporate behavior, but I doubt any company actually will change their behavior because of it.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#92

Post by jsjohnst »

cstross wrote: post #52
dalbasal wrote: post #39

These bits of litigation are interesting, but my usual takeaway is a mild contempt for the whole thing. Whether it's something minor like this or a major antitrust cases (eg, the recent adwords EU case), what is and isn't legally actionable seems arbitrary from a non-legal perspective. Even legislation efforts like european "cookie laws" and such seem bumbling and naive. What's the legal fix to this, assuming google…

Whether or not google are "stealing" data allowance from customers, or acquiring this right voluntarily/contractually from customers is interesting in the abstract Specific example of harm: international roaming data fees are outrageous and even a small use of data can stack up. If I visit Canada using my UK mobile phone, I have to be sure to keep data roaming turned off because I get dinged for £6/Mb (about US $7.50…

Not that you should “need” to do so (as in its absurd we still pay such high fees, but carrier roaming interconnect is still legacy tech for the most part), but most carriers these days have a “Intl data” add on that gives you either unlimited data for the day (usually around $10/£10/10€ based on experience) or as a full month add on for around $20 and it then uses your normal data allowance.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#93

Post by luord »

Between this and Jeffrey Paul's article shared yesterday about Big Sur and Apple Silicon[1], it's becoming increasingly tempting to throw my phone away and keep using only Linux with no applications primarily developed by these giants (i.e. no Chromium, etc).

Supporting initiatives like the Librem phone is also moving up in my list of priorities, once I get enough money to spare at least.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25078034

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#94

Post by phh »

mschuster91 wrote: post #85
swiley wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter who's involved, the security model in android is extremely user hostile. Many organizations are given super user access on device and the end user isn't. Only one of these needs to be poorly behaved (not even selling ads) for the device to be full of unremovable malware. There's definitely a social problem here, but I think for once people HN are underestimating the importance of a technical…

> Many organizations are given super user access on device and the end user isn't. That depends. Assuming an uncorrupted chain of delivery between you and the manufacturer, if you're running a vanilla AOSP, the only organization having root access is Google and you. Even with Samsung and other manufacturers, they are the only additional party whose packages have admin rights. The situation is more nasty with devices…

> Even with Samsung and other manufacturers, they are the only additional party whose packages have admin rights.

It depends on what you call "admin rights", but from my point of view you're wrong. On Samsung devices, DT Ignite (Israel-based ad company) is preinstalled, which has the rights to install new apps. Getting the right to install new apps means you can get any user permission. (like silently access camera, microphone, or screen capture to capture you typing your password)

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#95

Post by asutekku »

refulgentis wrote: post #89
asutekku wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's that the device should not use user's data at all when it's not in use, considering google does not pay for it.

Are there consumer computers that don't use the user's data at all when they're not in use?

The least they can do is to not load ads on the background. Sure, almost every device does some basic telemetry but showing ads is not something a device does need to function.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#96

Post by danhor »

francis-io wrote: post #31
Yetanfou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't rely on vendors to help you out of this conundrum, instead use what you have at your disposal to escape the duopoly. Get a supported Android device - there are hundreds of those by now - and install an AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. Leave out the Google bits, i.e. no 'gapps', no Google account, no nothing. If you need 'apps' which rely on the Google Services Framework use microG [1] but be aware of t…

Can this approach still use google apps when needed? I need to use certain things like 2FA apps used by my employer. I want the freedom to be able to quickly install X app if needed.

Depends on what the app needs, but microG seems to help a lot. But the issue with the GSF is that you can't just use it when needed, it's either nothing or everything. Additionally, modifying the firmware to install microG can lead to Safety Net failing, which may also lead to some other apps failing. I use Android without GSF & microG and it's fine for my needs, but that really depends on what types of apps you use.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#97

Post by wegs »

skizm wrote: post #91
mattlondon wrote: post #86

I wonder what people want out of these kind of lawsuits. If you can clearly identify exactly how much data is consumed, and you have a service plan that tells you exactly how much that data cost to use then the damages are precisely computable. So a judge can turn around and just award these people $4.72 in damages or whatever and case closed? What is the angle here, or is it just another "google-is-evil-but-i-still-…

Lawyers just bring up class action lawsuits to skim money off the payout. The individual payouts are usually so small barely anyone goes through the hassle of claiming them. The one positive is, at least it’s a small slap on the wrist for bad corporate behavior, but I doubt any company actually will change their behavior because of it.

No, companies do change behavior. The public interest argument is:

1) Companies can make a lot of money skimming $1 each off of 100 million people.

2) Federal enforcement agencies don't have time or energy for that. We can outsource that to private firms

3) Private law firms can file class action suits, and companies are forced into agreements where they pay damages AND often need to change behavior

It kinda sorta works too, in that companies stop doing the bad things. Lawyers collect the lion's share of the money, but few consumers care about a $1 payout. Judges approve deals to make sure they're equitable to the class.

It sorta doesn't work, since settlements are negotiated by lawyers who don't really care about anything other than getting paid. Few actually care about the class they're representing. Judges are former lawyers, and part of the corrupt culture. So in many cases, the changes in behavior are less than one might hope for.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#98

Post by deeter72 »

luord wrote: post #93

Between this and Jeffrey Paul's article shared yesterday about Big Sur and Apple Silicon[1], it's becoming increasingly tempting to throw my phone away and keep using only Linux with no applications primarily developed by these giants (i.e. no Chromium, etc). Supporting initiatives like the Librem phone is also moving up in my list of priorities, once I get enough money to spare at least. [1]: https://news.ycombinato…

I personally feel like, Apple is the best choice for the time being until actual daily usable Linux high end phones are a reality. Apple although has highly monopolistic practices are privacy oriented and are interested on just selling the physical device.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#99

Post by PersonalOps »

asutekku wrote: post #95
refulgentis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there consumer computers that don't use the user's data at all when they're not in use?

The least they can do is to not load ads on the background. Sure, almost every device does some basic telemetry but showing ads is not something a device does need to function.

Telemetry is not something the device needs to function either. It's a "value add" in the best possible light, security breach in the worst.
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