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Don't use third party auth to sign in

gurjeet.singh.im

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Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#141

Post by riedel »

ThreeFx wrote: post #131
aboringusername wrote: post #125

I'm honestly not sure where we went so wrong as a society so as to reach this point. Whether it's overzealous AI or the AMPification of the web. Google act with impunity and without remorse, every action designed to further their goals and agendas without respect to humans caught in the crossfire. If Google can, without due process and fair warning, remove your existence then this is a power that should be delegated…

Because there is no clear jurisdiction for the web. That's it.

It is already bad, that we need jurisdiction for such things in the web. I think we actually need such things to happen more often, so ppl can finally vote with their fest a long time ago for some freedom against a tiny bit of convenience. I think what we lack is a decent amount of social pressure.

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#142

Post by sneak »

augusto-moura wrote: post #129
sneak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such excellent advice that I wrote a detailed step-by-step instruction guide for people that don't know how to do precisely that: https://sneak.berlin/20201029/stop-emailing-like-a-rube/ It even has special instructions about how to secure the domain registration and DNS accounts. :) (Don't use G Suite, though.)

Really good article, could you share it as a hn submission by itself? Would love to see a discussion around it

Lately I try to avoid submitting my own website, per the HN guidelines discouraging promotion (the one exception is when I find a submission to be time critical). I only link to my own site in threads where it's directly and precisely relevant, such as this one.

If you found it valuable, you should submit it yourself. I'm not interested in the accumulation of updoots, feel free to get 'em. :)

I'd rather other people decide what subset of my writing is relevant to HN, as I'm no good at it: I'm too close to the work. (I only write about things I care a lot about.)

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#143

Post by anvandare »

aboringusername wrote: post #125

I'm honestly not sure where we went so wrong as a society so as to reach this point. Whether it's overzealous AI or the AMPification of the web. Google act with impunity and without remorse, every action designed to further their goals and agendas without respect to humans caught in the crossfire. If Google can, without due process and fair warning, remove your existence then this is a power that should be delegated…

The speed of technological development is faster than the speed of societal or legal development.

So yes, right now we've woken up in a world that is not so much cyberpunk as it is techno-feudalism: more and more do you need a presence on the Internet to do things in meatspace... And that presence is by the grace of several feudal lords (Google foremost) - woe betide you should you ever displease them. You do not really own your email adres, your phone (number) or (pretty soon) even your computer. You're merely a serf.

On the plus side, the momentum for legal measurements seems to be increasing. Let's hope they do get broken up. Power, like plutonium, is dangerous if too concentrated. Regardless of where that concentration lies.

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#144

Post by aboringusername »

Ace777 wrote: post #132
aboringusername wrote: post #125

I'm honestly not sure where we went so wrong as a society so as to reach this point. Whether it's overzealous AI or the AMPification of the web. Google act with impunity and without remorse, every action designed to further their goals and agendas without respect to humans caught in the crossfire. If Google can, without due process and fair warning, remove your existence then this is a power that should be delegated…

It's not removing your existence. It's removing your access to all of their services. At every point, google users are asked to acknowledge the EULA and TOS. They're being told that google can stop their service for any reason, including that service not being comercially viable. ( I.E. Any Reason ) Access to google services isn't a right. It never was, unlike the property rights you're drawing a false equivalency wi…

Do you not see this as a problem? With the amount of services Google offer, losing them can be devastating; photos, emails, Android backups, contacts and so so much more.

This pandemic has been reliant on emails to access services; it's how I get my payslips, talk to my employer, get current information, engage with legal services, and essentially maintain my access to society.

Losing my emails would be devastating (hence why I don't use a "major" provider, at least less risk that way).

We need to define what "rights" are and weigh that interest in society. If Google wants to be a "one stop shop" it cannot, and must not, be immune to laws and the rights of individuals to challenge decisions.

Isn't that the foundation of a society?

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#145

Post by _jal »

tyingq wrote: post #119

There does seem to be a need for Google to clarify their rules for "banning" an email used for sign-in. It seems like things should be more granular, such that being banned on YouTube doesn't make your thermostat quit working, ruin your phone contacts/photos/etc, or cut you off from your unspent AdWords funds.

Next, consider what they were up to with Sidewalk Labs in Toronto before that project was 86ed.

"Google + Sidewalk: bring the dystopia of robo-support to the civil service!"

Or maybe

"Google + Sidewalk: Snowcrash was the blueprint, right?"

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#146

Post by yyyk »

nickjj wrote: post #78
roenxi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a lot to protect against a thing that will probably not happen (account being banned) $1,200 is a lot of money, but... anyone aged 23+ is older than Google. 17+ is older than GMail. It is an illusion to say we know what will or will not happen to Google over the next 20 years. We don't know how entrenched the tech giants are over decades because we've never had anything like them before. This is a problem th…

> It is an illusion to say we know what will or will not happen to Google over the next 20 years. We don't know how entrenched the tech giants are over decades because we've never had anything like them before. Realistically we have little control or have any clue on what's going to happen a few years out in almost every aspect of life. Look at Kodak (the photography company). They were around for over a 100 years, t…

>Look at Kodak (the photography company). They were around for over a 100 years, then digital photography came along to disrupt their market and they pretty much disappeared in a few months.

Kodak was well aware of digital photography, arguably one of its pioneers. What killed Kodak was cellphones. Kodak was too dependent and attached to making cameras and camera-related equipment. Most people did not need separate cameras once cellphones came along (even the 'dumb' models have a camera), so Kodak had nothing relevant to sell... Doubtful Google could be so stupid. Maybe if the Feds separate gmail from Search there'll be problems?

>I wish nothing but success for Fastmail or any other email service that lets you control your email, but if they go down then you're in the same position as Google going down while using gmail.

Keeping all your mails locally is not difficult if you use a mail client rather than a web client. Copying to a local folder every once in a while is a one/two click operation in typical clients.

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#147

Post by augusto-moura »

sneak wrote: post #142
augusto-moura wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really good article, could you share it as a hn submission by itself? Would love to see a discussion around it

Lately I try to avoid submitting my own website, per the HN guidelines discouraging promotion (the one exception is when I find a submission to be time critical). I only link to my own site in threads where it's directly and precisely relevant, such as this one. If you found it valuable, you should submit it yourself. I'm not interested in the accumulation of updoots, feel free to get 'em. :) I'd rather other people…

I don't care that much for the upvotes either btw

But the article is very well written and would be a shame if we didn't got other opinions here in HN, kudos for you, already added it to Pocket for later

Will try to get it rolling then

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#148

Post by black_puppydog »

aboringusername wrote: post #125

I'm honestly not sure where we went so wrong as a society so as to reach this point. Whether it's overzealous AI or the AMPification of the web. Google act with impunity and without remorse, every action designed to further their goals and agendas without respect to humans caught in the crossfire. If Google can, without due process and fair warning, remove your existence then this is a power that should be delegated…

It's not quite your scenario yet but we're pretty darn close: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/duplex-demolition-google-maps...

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#149

Post by unnouinceput »

aboringusername wrote: post #144
Ace777 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not removing your existence. It's removing your access to all of their services. At every point, google users are asked to acknowledge the EULA and TOS. They're being told that google can stop their service for any reason, including that service not being comercially viable. ( I.E. Any Reason ) Access to google services isn't a right. It never was, unlike the property rights you're drawing a false equivalency wi…

Do you not see this as a problem? With the amount of services Google offer, losing them can be devastating; photos, emails, Android backups, contacts and so so much more. This pandemic has been reliant on emails to access services; it's how I get my payslips, talk to my employer, get current information, engage with legal services, and essentially maintain my access to society. Losing my emails would be devastating (…

No, it's not a problem. It's your problem if you become entrenched in their (or Apple's / FB / whatever) services.

I have a google account to test my devices / emulators. Never logged in gmail with that account, never will. If they cut it off, I can make another.

Same with Apple. I have an Apple free ID for running virtual machines with MacOS / iOS and that's all. I tell my customers to create their own Apple ID and I deliver them the sources + dev environment and they make their own binaries and publish on Apple store. My job is done once I make the app run on emulators and I tell them from the start of the project this.

I have a FB account to talk on FB mess with parents from school and that's all. I don't even have them as friends there, I am just in 3 lists and that's all.

Also i use protonmail currently as I've started migrating from yahoo 2 years ago (old e-mails still there, I open that e-mail like once per month).

Do the same, you'll be free. Also you can use an e-mail account outside of google domain to actually create a google account, if you really need one.

Re: Don't use third party auth to sign in

#150

Post by usr1106 »

grezql wrote: post #6

Has anyone else noticed random popups on 3rd party websites asking for google sign in? I even used firefox when it happened: https://imgur.com/a/JC52lBV (lequipe.fr) https://imgur.com/a/VSM3Uk9 (reddit.com) https://imgur.com/a/KpVCYBL (medium.com)

No I haven't. Because whenever I sign in to Google I do so in a container. And I sign out and destroy tye container as soon as I am done.
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