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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#401

Post by rjkennedy98 »

m_mueller wrote: post #362
throwaway11320 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame comments like this require throwaway accounts on hacker news. People refuse to consider the other sides perspective, insisting that they are right without doing the mental exercise to even consider the other side having a shred of truth or valuable thought. There are very smart people on all sides of the political spectrum. What makes it worse, is if you don't take the time to consider the other side's p…

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

We have to go all the way back to 2000 when Bush v Gore happened and Democrats claimed the election was stolen. Actually no, we just have to go back literally to just the last election when Hilary asked for recounts after conceding and then the Democrats used false claims of Russian interference to discredit the election. Heard of the Muller probe? This is a highly unorthodox election due to the high number of mail-in ballots. We have unprecedented censorship of social media by corporations that function as arms of a political party. Trump has a right under law to challenge it. Hillary asked for recounts very late in the process in just the last election with no evidence of corruption. It is not a coup to challenge under law an election process and refuse to concede till then. It’s happened literally multiple times in US history. You are not from the US but you may be surprised to learn the US is not a direct democracy but has a system in place called the electoral college which is there for managing electoral disputes.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#402

Post by tarsinge »

m_mueller wrote: post #362
throwaway11320 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame comments like this require throwaway accounts on hacker news. People refuse to consider the other sides perspective, insisting that they are right without doing the mental exercise to even consider the other side having a shred of truth or valuable thought. There are very smart people on all sides of the political spectrum. What makes it worse, is if you don't take the time to consider the other side's p…

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

No opinions here, but as a thought experiment to get a perspective on the other side, what if it was indeed stolen? Of course in reality there is no proof, but that's the danger of conspirations: in that case, you are on the good side, here something like "trying to prevent communists from taking over America with fake votes". Until the "truth" on facts is agreed (here no fake votes), both sides live in their reality trying to make what is right given their respective premise.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#403

Post by ThePreacherMan »

didericis wrote: post #18
watwut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly is rational middle in your view? Who exactly is right wing side and who exactly is left wing side? Is democratic party along with Joe Biden really controlling violent antifa? Is antifa actually killing people and attempting kidnappings? Is democratic party really attacking elections the way president is now? The rational middle will be dwindling as long as they are always referred to in abstract without e…

I can’t speak for the person you’re asking, but Tulsi Gabbard is representative of what I see as the rational middle.

Are you brain-damaged?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#404

Post by spinny »

alavesto wrote: post #221
nostrademons wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate on aazaa's comment: think of the labels "patriot" and "terrorist" and think of how frequently they correlate with "winner" and "loser". The Founding Fathers were patriots, because America is now the dominant world superpower. But there are a number of groups that attempted to do to America exactly what America did to the British. Daniel Shay, Tecumseh, Sitting Bull, the entire Confederacy, the Anarchist…

This isn't to be taken as a show of support at all, but I had similar thoughts when the story of the kidnapping plot against Michigan gov Gretchen Whitmer broke. The militia had been heavily encouraged by multiple undercover FBI agents-provocateur who themselves were integral in engineering the plot - and it's really unclear whether the militia would have even considering doing such a thing without these agents eggin…

Remember, remember, the 5th of November ...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#405

Post by m_mueller »

tarsinge wrote: post #402
m_mueller wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

No opinions here, but as a thought experiment to get a perspective on the other side, what if it was indeed stolen? Of course in reality there is no proof, but that's the danger of conspirations: in that case, you are on the good side, here something like "trying to prevent communists from taking over America with fake votes". Until the "truth" on facts is agreed (here no fake votes), both sides live in their reality…

I do actually always try to get multiple angles from different angles on a topic, but when even most of Fox News doesn't support Trump's narrative in something I don't have to look further into it. People who support this narrative are simply too far gone and there's nothing to discuss with them anymore.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#406

Post by m_mueller »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #401
m_mueller wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

We have to go all the way back to 2000 when Bush v Gore happened and Democrats claimed the election was stolen. Actually no, we just have to go back literally to just the last election when Hilary asked for recounts after conceding and then the Democrats used false claims of Russian interference to discredit the election. Heard of the Muller probe? This is a highly unorthodox election due to the high number of mail-i…

There is a very big difference between asking for recounts and declaring yourself winner and the election stolen before there is even an attempt to discover any evidence. Aldo in Gore's case it actually was extremely close, unlike in current elections. So, I'm sorry, but this just reads like standard whataboutism.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#407

Post by _lffv »

drilldrive wrote: post #342
_lffv wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is Communist the same way the third reich was Socialist: in name only.

Just taken a bit off guard: do you not dispute the other claim?

I think the general point is correct but I don't think the businesses are influenced by China specifically. That puts too little blame on us.

Our home-grown flavor of fascism is influenced by Nazi Germany in particular but has far outpaced it by systematically co-opting and diluting any attempts to divert from the status quo. Pride parades are paid for by banks, Black Lives Matter is supported by companies with histories of racial discrimination, hell, the phrase "All Cops Are Bastards" was taken by Liberals to mean "some cops (not your friends) are bastards (but they're good people just forced to do some bad stuff)". The Right has convinced the populace that the Left wants to censor and restrict the people when in reality the opposite is true. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

I think China is still learning to ride the bike of authoritarianism. A truly totalitarian government will seem to its people to be completely democratic.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#408

Post by Tarsul »

lostcolony wrote: post #261
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, more of us are corruptible than we think.

Well, per Herbert's quote, I think the attractiveness of power is directly and inversely proportional to how corrupt(ible) a person is. The best leaders are the servant ones, who see leadership as a burden to bear, and to assume only begrudgingly as need thrusts it upon them. Those who look to it for the ability to change the world, even with the best intentions, are imminently corruptible; they're already approachin…

That's why we need more women in power.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#409

Post by throwaway23452 »

m_mueller wrote: post #405
tarsinge wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No opinions here, but as a thought experiment to get a perspective on the other side, what if it was indeed stolen? Of course in reality there is no proof, but that's the danger of conspirations: in that case, you are on the good side, here something like "trying to prevent communists from taking over America with fake votes". Until the "truth" on facts is agreed (here no fake votes), both sides live in their reality…

I do actually always try to get multiple angles from different angles on a topic, but when even most of Fox News doesn't support Trump's narrative in something I don't have to look further into it. People who support this narrative are simply too far gone and there's nothing to discuss with them anymore.

Too far gone in terms of a warped reality (in this case), yes. Fundamentally evil, no. That's the important distinction here.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#410

Post by thrwaway2112 »

m_mueller wrote: post #362
throwaway11320 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame comments like this require throwaway accounts on hacker news. People refuse to consider the other sides perspective, insisting that they are right without doing the mental exercise to even consider the other side having a shred of truth or valuable thought. There are very smart people on all sides of the political spectrum. What makes it worse, is if you don't take the time to consider the other side's p…

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

Consider that the military officials being forced out were just reported to having been lying to the President about troop numbers in conflict zones... Then think about which direction the coup may have been coming from
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