Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

press.uchicago.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 426 posts

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#381

Post by m_mueller »

throwaway23452 wrote: post #378
throwaway11320 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can run the best campaign, you can even be the nominee. And you can have the election stolen from you" - Hillary Clinton ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i_pC3lp04 ) "Why is Trump making these controversial staffing changes now? No one knows for sure, but it’s probably not as sinister as some fear. When the resignations and appointments were announced, some worried that a sinister plot was afoot — that Trump…

I'm skeptical about part of that story, seeing as Esper literally earned the nickname "Yesper" for being a floor-mat to the president's wishes. But I also think the likelihood of a coup is way overblown. After Esper was pushed out, the other three people resigned; they weren't fired. People said the same thing about a coup when he was first elected, when characters like Steve Bannon were in the White House whispering…

I really hope you’re right. At the end of the day, if he doesn’t concede then only the military can remove him on January 20th, which he can try to get sufficient control over. I think people are not taking his disregard of the election seriously enough.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#382

Post by throwaway23452 »

m_mueller wrote: post #381
throwaway23452 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about part of that story, seeing as Esper literally earned the nickname "Yesper" for being a floor-mat to the president's wishes. But I also think the likelihood of a coup is way overblown. After Esper was pushed out, the other three people resigned; they weren't fired. People said the same thing about a coup when he was first elected, when characters like Steve Bannon were in the White House whispering…

I really hope you’re right. At the end of the day, if he doesn’t concede then only the military can remove him on January 20th, which he can try to get sufficient control over. I think people are not taking his disregard of the election seriously enough.

I think it's serious either way, just in the longer-term. He continues to sow discord and distrust in our institutions which will last beyond this election cycle, and will only continue to weaken the country as a whole. But I don't think it'll amount to a sudden takeover. Fingers crossed.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#383

Post by mensetmanusman »

sonofhans wrote: post #255
awb wrote: post #105

> "How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice — ‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certa…

> But power corrupts absolutely ... Even accounting for the misquote (no hate :) I disagree. History furnishes us with examples aplenty of people who were powerful yet uncorrupted. I believe Frank Herbert was closer to the truth when he wrote: > “All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people…

The only resistance to power corrupting is the belief that you don’t deserve the power (humility).

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#384

Post by mensetmanusman »

amirkdv wrote: post #121
awb wrote: post #105

> "How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice — ‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certa…

Genuinely curious: what are some historically significant examples of "false positives"? By which I assume you mean a time when people rose to resist something they didn't really have to.

Arab Spring has been a disaster.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#385

Post by mensetmanusman »

aazaa wrote: post #122

Imagine you're living through the events described in the essay. You know exactly where things are heading and that the situation is dire. You're willing to do whatever it takes to prevent the inevitable from playing out. What's your plan and your next move?

Start researching uranium purification.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#387

Post by 1123581321 »

triceratops wrote: post #333
frenchyatwork wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's safe to fear unchecked power and those who are loyal to people instead of loyal to ideas For all its many failings, I think this is one of the benefits that religion (an particularly the form of religion popular in Europe during the the last 2000 years) can provide. By having a notion of some god, and a cannon, you can have a list of ideas that everyone considers good, and it makes such demagoguery a l…

> By having a notion of some god, and a cannon, you can have a list of ideas that everyone considers good, and it makes such demagoguery a little more difficult. Where do events such as the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades fit into that idea?

Those are appropriate examples as in each of those, popular and political movements were checked by the shared morals of Christianity, and the desires of kings were moderated by widely accepted church teachings.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#388

Post by weakfish »

prewett wrote: post #331

This is a troubling article in its own right, but what was more troubling is the realization I had 3/4 of the way down. At first I was thinking "yes, this is what Trump is doing, albeit incompetently. I feel like this guy, that I'm an alarmist but I can't prove anything." And then when it started talking about opposing opinions being shouted down, I realized that the "Progressives" might actually be doing the same th…

Why should it be okay to disagree with homosexuality but not, say, race, another thing that cannot be controlled? Terrible comparison.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#389

Post by weakfish »

throwaway1723 wrote: post #347

And today it's absolutely the same situation like the one described in the article. History taught no one. Once again, no one seems to be willing to resist the beginnings and consider the end. The beginnings go by the name COVID-19 and include lockdowns, closure of national borders, obligatory mask-or-starve-to-death, social distancing, temp checks, QR codes assigned to people in order to leave home, and other totali…

I know you probably think you're right, but I can't help read this with pity that you think you're in the same position as the precursor to a totalitarian state because people don't want to kill their grandparents.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#390

Post by thrwaway19292 »

dang wrote: post #353
bleepblorp wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting the accepted-by-the-rest-of-the-world reality about Trump, Trumpism, what the ideology stands for, and what the people who voted for it are endorsing is very much a taboo subject on HN. Indeed, as your experience demonstrates, posting the version of the electoral reality--namely, that Trump lost--that's accepted by all but 30% of Republicans is now taboo. Posts that touch on these issues will be censored eith…

People are rightly downvoting and flagging garden-variety political flamewar posts because they're off topic here. The passionate partisans of every flavor also do their share of downvoting and flagging, of course. But you don't need to invoke that as an explanation when political battle posts are being flagged. This is not a site for political battle. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Respectfully disagree. GP's answer was also on my mind given how timely and relevant to the question it is.

Sometimes reality does make people look bad. That doesn't make that reality "garden-variety political flamewar." The results of the election have been universally reported and it's ridiculous to pretend that they haven't just because it offends the political sensibilities of some.

Political discussions on HN are already pretty questionable, but killing discussion because it might upset a certain crowd biases what we're allowed to talk about away from reality. That's never a good thing. This shouldn't be a bubble where we can't say something as simple and inoffensive as the statement that Donald Trump lost the election, has (along with some Republican colleagues) refused to concede, and that it epitomizes the way that norms have been eroded in our government over the past four years.

Post reply on HN