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So you've made a mistake and it's public

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Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#321

Post by curiousllama »

0000011111 wrote: post #116
DenisM wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in strong position stand to gain by apologizing, while people in weak position stand to lose. One must consider one's standing before dabbling. In my own company I try to apologize every time I screw something up. I know my position is unassailable, and my team members should have trust that their leadership is in touch with reality. I am also cognizant of the fact that no hired employee has the same level of…

Apologizing is a good leadership strategy regardless of standing IMO. It shows that you are human which can help one gain and maintain report with fellow workers. Refusing to apologize has the opposite effect.

Strong disagree. I want to follow someone who knows when not to apologize: when it’s _not_ their/our mistake, when assigning blame doesn’t help, and when they’re fighting for us.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#322

Post by frenchy »

learnstats2 wrote: post #265
DoreenMichele wrote: post #172

I don't know. Years ago, I was on an email list and I did a lot of sincere public apologizing, in part because the internet was younger, so we didn't have a lot of stuff worked out. We were just stumbling our way forward as best we could. And the end result was that I became everyone's bitch. People would intentionally pick on me and be ugly to me and when it went sideways, the group as a whole would go "There she go…

> I did a lot of sincere public apologizing If you generally live by your own values, and act according to them, then (in my opinion) you should rarely need to apologise for that. Why did you need to do a lot of apologizing, I'm curious? If I think of particular people I personally know who frequently apologise, it often seems to me that they are doing that to centre and prioritise their own experience ahead of other…

> If you generally live by your own values, and act according to them

Maybe you're different than the rest of us, but I imagine that most people do things from time to time that don't align with their values, either because of an honest accident, or because of a "moment of weakness". Obviously we don't need to publicly apologize for everything though.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#323

Post by mmaunder »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #172

I don't know. Years ago, I was on an email list and I did a lot of sincere public apologizing, in part because the internet was younger, so we didn't have a lot of stuff worked out. We were just stumbling our way forward as best we could. And the end result was that I became everyone's bitch. People would intentionally pick on me and be ugly to me and when it went sideways, the group as a whole would go "There she go…

I once apologized to someone and they took full advantage of the situation stomping me into the proverbial ground and ending in a psychological position where they were the clear winner and had an advantage over me in future encounters. Most people don’t do this and are gracious. But unless you’ve had this happen to you, you don’t have an understanding of the risks associated with a full blown mea culpa.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#324

Post by nomoreusernames »

mmaunder wrote: post #323
DoreenMichele wrote: post #172

I don't know. Years ago, I was on an email list and I did a lot of sincere public apologizing, in part because the internet was younger, so we didn't have a lot of stuff worked out. We were just stumbling our way forward as best we could. And the end result was that I became everyone's bitch. People would intentionally pick on me and be ugly to me and when it went sideways, the group as a whole would go "There she go…

I once apologized to someone and they took full advantage of the situation stomping me into the proverbial ground and ending in a psychological position where they were the clear winner and had an advantage over me in future encounters. Most people don’t do this and are gracious. But unless you’ve had this happen to you, you don’t have an understanding of the risks associated with a full blown mea culpa.

if a person uses your honesty against you then finding this out early is a very good thing. you made a mistake, who cares? question is what did you learn? share that. and i still love you none the less stranger.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#325

Post by dingoegret »

This is terrible advice. The advice presupposes that indignant people are reasonable, fair, forgiving (and frankly, gullible). If you bend over to a mob that is out to get you, then you will find out very quickly how cruel people can become. You will find out that human beings, within angry group dynamics, simply revert back to primitiveness in these situations. It's like dealing with a pack of wolves. Never show weakness. This doesn't get us to a better society but it is what it is.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#326

Post by ComputerGuru »

throw7 wrote: post #111
macspoofing wrote: post #23

I'm not sure apologizing publicly has made anything better for any individual, especially in the current moral panic climate. Mobs don't accept apologies. Public apologies stamp official guilt on the individual and therefore serve as a license for the mob to further punish them because now they have admitted their fault and therefore are 'officially' guilty of the crime. Public apologies, therefore, are the metaphori…

There's only one rule for apologizing: You apologize if you actually believe that you've done wrong. NEVER apologize for something you believe was done correctly or in good faith or for "PR" or whatever else.

Should you not apologize for unintended consequences, i.e. done in good faith, but on your authority/responsibility?

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#327

Post by core-questions »

StavrosK wrote: post #285
OJFord wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I apologizing? Hardly! The full sentence is, "Sorry, did you just actually step on my foot, what the hell?" At least in the UK, that's not the full sentence, or it could be, but only with a change in tone ('SOrrY?!') - to me it's more like 'Oops my foot was in your way I think, so sorry'. (Said of course before you have a chance to think 'no hang on, I wasn't in the way, you weren't looking, this isn't my fault'…

So basically an "excuse me what the fuck"?

Yes, that's the gist of it - couched in more politeness, but the tone says it all. Perhaps lost on non-native English speakers, of course; but then, that's half the charm, the built in plausible deniability.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#328

Post by djsumdog »

cactus2093 wrote: post #206
djsumdog wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize this goes both ways. There are tons and tons of election irregularities. The presidential legal team has several lawsuits that are going forward and recounts going forward. There are literally tens of thousands of dead people who have voted in areas with very small margins. So your statement ... you're making a truth. You're saying what you want it to be, even though there is tons and tons of evidence aga…

If you say so dude, and hey I have nothing against the using the legal process as it's intended. However there really is not tons of evidence, you haven't provided a shred of evidenced, nobody anywhere has produced any credible evidence of any of this. If they had the mainstream media would be all over it because any scandal is very good for their bottom line. And I hope you'll retract your dangerous statements once…

I did a whole post on it here:

https://battlepenguin.com/politics/the-return-of-american-co...

There are a lot of irregularities and several states have already forced hand recounts because the margins are so close.

In PA and NV, they kicked out GOP observers. Why? Even if there is no foul play, that is a terrible thing to do. It. Looks. Bad. And it's illegal. Votes need to be tallied in front of both parties. They may have invalided hundreds of thousands of votes depending on a lawsuit.

Election fraud and voter fraud are very difficult to prove. America is no stranger to it (Remember Bush v Gore and Diabold voting machines?) But I think people had some hope the system was that corrupt. They were wrong, and America is.

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#329

Post by ck2 »

it's all good advice

but

just want to point out the "leader of the free world" doesn't follow any of this and well, job title

so apparently it's not the only "solution" as it looks like doubling down also works

Re: So you've made a mistake and it's public

#330

Post by baby »

Interestingly in the book Rage there is 10 pages of Bob telling Trump again and again that he should have apologized about the quiproquo and things would have been fine. Trump refuses to see it this way, and I’m inclined to believe that maybe Trump is right. From a sociology point of view things might be better if you deny instead of apologizing. I’m now wondering if the same could be true in a relationship, although social dynamics work differently at different scales.
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