Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

press.uchicago.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 426 posts

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#371

Post by onecommentman »

jessaustin wrote: post #258
frenchyatwork wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's safe to fear unchecked power and those who are loyal to people instead of loyal to ideas For all its many failings, I think this is one of the benefits that religion (an particularly the form of religion popular in Europe during the the last 2000 years) can provide. By having a notion of some god, and a cannon, you can have a list of ideas that everyone considers good, and it makes such demagoguery a l…

s/cannon/canon/g Most scoundrels throughout the history you invoke, clung tightly to their Christian identity. The millions of peasants subject to the predations of the Church over scores of generations didn't praise the Lord for their good fortunes. That Hitler wasn't particularly Christian himself, probably was because Christianity was already a tarnished brand in early 20c central Europe.

“s/cannon/canon/g”

Never seen this before. Simple, elegant, and doesn’t make the poster feel bad. I’m stealing it...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#372

Post by onecommentman »

throwaway23452 wrote: post #368
m_mueller wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

The way I see it, there are three sides right now: the left, the right, and Donald Trump. Much (not all) of the right has been convinced that their only hope of saving the country from an evil, terrible fate is to throw in with Trump. Trump himself acts out of pure, unadulterated narcissism. I honestly think accusing him of attempted coup is giving him too much credit: he simply does whatever he wants, at any given m…

“Trump himself acts out of pure, unadulterated narcissism.”

Is this a professional diagnosis? Do you know him personally?

Or is this a projection? It sounds an awful lot like projection. Your post does this a lot about a lot of people...

It may be correct. It may not. But it doesn’t help your case to play Freud on, what is in your case, pixels on a screen.

You can’t seriously call someone a “petulant child” unless you’ve actually interacted with the person. This is a 74 year old whose best-known expertise is in constructing artificial personas to better negotiate deals. Think about that. He’s not your father.

The commonly accepted term is “loose cannon”. It skips the psychoanalytic overhead very few people are in the position to do. You say “loose cannon” and, for a large group of people the situation, and how to mitigate it, comes into better focus.

I’m sure your family and friends are delighted that you continue to think they are good people. And it is noble of you to have developed the ability to frame things in such a way as to not reflexively demonize those who disagree on this matter. But edit before you post.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#373

Post by onecommentman »

superdude264 wrote: post #363
solarhoma wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there you go. When you tell others their thoughts are wrong you yourself become authoritarian.

Yeah, like who is to say 1+1=2?

1+1=3, for sufficiently large values of “1”. And for this community, that’s less of a joke than you think. This isn’t effective snark...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#374

Post by slg »

dang wrote: post #370
slg wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will just point out this basically proves my point. The question was what norms changed. I said a candidate won an election and some people won't acknowledge that which goes against previous norms. This is a simple fact confirmed by basically every credible news org in the country, but it is now apparently enough to be considered a "garden-variety political flamewar post".

Your post included many more markers of political flamewar than that. Also, there is no such thing as a "simple fact". https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

I swear I am not trying to be a jerk, but what were the many markers of a political flamewar that I used? I know politic topics have been getting heated on HN lately and I am probably more guilty of participating in that than the average user. However I do try to stay on the line of what is allowed here and I legitimately don't know what you are objecting to in my comment.

I also don't know how this is a disputed fact when basically every news source from MSNBC to Fox News and practically every world leader from Angela Merkel to Xi Jinping all agree on it. I don't think there is a single credible source that disagrees with the outcome of the US presidential election.

I don't think my comment would have been considered to have markers of a political flamewar or considered anything but a fact if I wrote it 4 years ago about Trump's victory over Clinton. That is basically the entire point of my original comment. Our standards have eroded in the last 4 years.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#375

Post by [deleted] »

onecommentman wrote: post #372
throwaway23452 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, there are three sides right now: the left, the right, and Donald Trump. Much (not all) of the right has been convinced that their only hope of saving the country from an evil, terrible fate is to throw in with Trump. Trump himself acts out of pure, unadulterated narcissism. I honestly think accusing him of attempted coup is giving him too much credit: he simply does whatever he wants, at any given m…

“Trump himself acts out of pure, unadulterated narcissism.” Is this a professional diagnosis? Do you know him personally? Or is this a projection? It sounds an awful lot like projection. Your post does this a lot about a lot of people... It may be correct. It may not. But it doesn’t help your case to play Freud on, what is in your case, pixels on a screen. You can’t seriously call someone a “petulant child” unless yo…

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#376

Post by awb »

alavesto wrote: post #221
nostrademons wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate on aazaa's comment: think of the labels "patriot" and "terrorist" and think of how frequently they correlate with "winner" and "loser". The Founding Fathers were patriots, because America is now the dominant world superpower. But there are a number of groups that attempted to do to America exactly what America did to the British. Daniel Shay, Tecumseh, Sitting Bull, the entire Confederacy, the Anarchist…

This isn't to be taken as a show of support at all, but I had similar thoughts when the story of the kidnapping plot against Michigan gov Gretchen Whitmer broke. The militia had been heavily encouraged by multiple undercover FBI agents-provocateur who themselves were integral in engineering the plot - and it's really unclear whether the militia would have even considering doing such a thing without these agents eggin…

If the FBI did that, that's entrapment and might be an eligible defense. However, if the FBI assisted or even encouraged an existing plot, then I don't think it would qualify.

> Entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent or agent of the state induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit

> Depending on the law in the jurisdiction, the prosecution may be required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped or the defendant may be required to prove that they were entrapped as an affirmative defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#377

Post by onecommentman »

advisedwang wrote: post #312
Der_Einzige wrote: post #268

Lmao, Dang must not be awake, because this is far more of a "political flame-bait' thread than basically any other I've seen on this website in quite some time.

This is an historical analysis. It provides no dictum for current behaviour, and no comparison to current events or people. You seem to be suggesting that merely looking at history should not be allowed in case we are able to draw a conclusion from it that suggests something remiss in the political sphere now. That's pretty chilling.

But when postings only focus on the excesses of one particular political regime in one corner of a field, it becomes a meta-rhetorical device. When I see similar analyses presented on Mao, Stalin, French revolutionaries, and the motley crew of past authoritarians, left and right, I will be as sanguine as you.

When papers/media exclusively cover the crimes of only one group (blacks, Jews, etc.), you would agree that would be (in the case of Nazis was) a concern from the standpoint of manipulating public opinion.

Only highlighting the dangers of Nazi Germany in a forum, and never talking about similar abuses in other left-wing regimes? Now that is chilling.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#378

Post by throwaway23452 »

throwaway11320 wrote: post #369
m_mueller wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but is there really two sides to consider when one calls a US election stolen and has started to replace military officials? I call that an attempt at a coup.

"You can run the best campaign, you can even be the nominee. And you can have the election stolen from you" - Hillary Clinton ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i_pC3lp04 ) "Why is Trump making these controversial staffing changes now? No one knows for sure, but it’s probably not as sinister as some fear. When the resignations and appointments were announced, some worried that a sinister plot was afoot — that Trump…

I'm skeptical about part of that story, seeing as Esper literally earned the nickname "Yesper" for being a floor-mat to the president's wishes. But I also think the likelihood of a coup is way overblown. After Esper was pushed out, the other three people resigned; they weren't fired.

People said the same thing about a coup when he was first elected, when characters like Steve Bannon were in the White House whispering in his ear. At peak Trumpism across the country, before his approval rating started going down, that probably would have been a better time to do such a thing if it were going to happen. And yet... it just didn't. Lots of callous and shortsighted and regressive policy-making ensued, to be sure, but nothing like a coup.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#379

Post by dTal »

prewett wrote: post #331

This is a troubling article in its own right, but what was more troubling is the realization I had 3/4 of the way down. At first I was thinking "yes, this is what Trump is doing, albeit incompetently. I feel like this guy, that I'm an alarmist but I can't prove anything." And then when it started talking about opposing opinions being shouted down, I realized that the "Progressives" might actually be doing the same th…

I find it ironic and sad, but not unexpected, that this was downvoted.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#380

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #350
confidantlake wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any non fascist post is being brigaded by the fascists in the thread.

Please don't use HN for ideological flamewar, regardless of which ideology you favor. We ban this sort of account because it destroys the intended use of the site (curious conversation). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]
Post reply on HN