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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#351

Post by watwut »

prewett wrote: post #331

This is a troubling article in its own right, but what was more troubling is the realization I had 3/4 of the way down. At first I was thinking "yes, this is what Trump is doing, albeit incompetently. I feel like this guy, that I'm an alarmist but I can't prove anything." And then when it started talking about opposing opinions being shouted down, I realized that the "Progressives" might actually be doing the same th…

You might want to read more about weichmart democracy. For all American flaws, the two countries are not nearly the same.

IMO, if anything will doom America is the reflexive insistence that there are two sides and that those two sides are equal. Nothing like that existed in Germany, tho they did had actual communist movement they actually tried coup.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#352

Post by bleepblorp »

slg wrote: post #234
the-dude wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which west? Which norms?

Just one recent example, this past presidential election was a resounding victory for Joe Biden. He has 306 electoral votes and is expected to win the popular vote by some 6 million people. Leaders around the world have all recognized this however the number of Republicans in federal office that have publicly acknowledged this can seemingly be counted on your fingers. A simple norm of acknowledging an electoral defea…

Posting the accepted-by-the-rest-of-the-world reality about Trump, Trumpism, what the ideology stands for, and what the people who voted for it are endorsing is very much a taboo subject on HN. Indeed, as your experience demonstrates, posting the version of the electoral reality--namely, that Trump lost--that's accepted by all but 30% of Republicans is now taboo.

Posts that touch on these issues will be censored either through downvoting or bad-faith flagging. I'm not entirely convinced this is organic behavior, but it is what happens to posts that speak too clearly about the dangers of Trumpism.

Some people may try to frame this as a 'no politics' position, but this is at best inaccurate. Trumpist disinformation does not get downvoted or flagged with any regularity.

If the HN staff don't want to preside over yet another (quasi) social media echo-chamber, they need to do something about Trump loyalists bullying fact-based posts regarding Trump off the platform. The current staff viewpoint, however, seems to be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

To quote Edmund Burke, "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Giving Trumpists a platform to corrode the foundations of American democracy while shouting down the viewpoint accepted by most of the planet--again, that Trump lost the election--is, at this point, very much an evil.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#353

Post by dang »

bleepblorp wrote: post #352
slg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one recent example, this past presidential election was a resounding victory for Joe Biden. He has 306 electoral votes and is expected to win the popular vote by some 6 million people. Leaders around the world have all recognized this however the number of Republicans in federal office that have publicly acknowledged this can seemingly be counted on your fingers. A simple norm of acknowledging an electoral defea…

Posting the accepted-by-the-rest-of-the-world reality about Trump, Trumpism, what the ideology stands for, and what the people who voted for it are endorsing is very much a taboo subject on HN. Indeed, as your experience demonstrates, posting the version of the electoral reality--namely, that Trump lost--that's accepted by all but 30% of Republicans is now taboo. Posts that touch on these issues will be censored eith…

People are rightly downvoting and flagging garden-variety political flamewar posts because they're off topic here.

The passionate partisans of every flavor also do their share of downvoting and flagging, of course. But you don't need to invoke that as an explanation when political battle posts are being flagged. This is not a site for political battle.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#354

Post by jshevek »

joeberon wrote: post #278
throwawayxyz123 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33 Racially charged ownership stickers. Many added to protect from racially charged vandalism. A familiar sight in 2020 USA. On the streets and online. Does your favorite open source project sport an out of place racial banner? True, the confidence of those in power in their ability to harm their targets increases gradually. But make no mistake, using bl…

> an out of place racial banner Are you talking about black lives matter here? If so that is the total opposite of what they meant. That is literally anti-authoritarian, anti-police killing innocent black people.

The literal meaning of any political slogan rarely reflects the meaning that various people ascribe to the phrase, both among supporters and detractors. Is it your position that there are no authoritarian agendas represented in the movement?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#355

Post by _iyig »

pydry wrote: post #205
_iyig wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably referring to a separate shooting death in CHOP, that of Lorenzo Anderson. I am referring to the murder of Antonio Mays Jr. by antifa security. This murder was filmed from multiple angles and recordings are widely available. Short clips from several of the vantage points (skip to roughly 1:40 - warning, disturbing): https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_K0tXOBPMHA

Not really sure what I saw on that video. It's a mess. The last I heard Antonio Mays murder was an active investigation with no arrests made: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-wha... If it's an open and shut case and the shooter is clearly identifiable why is that? Is the Seattle Police in on this conspiracy? I of course assumed you meant the other kid because the murderer was actually, yknow,…

> Once again, I'm sure you actually know all of this.

This kind of talk is quite small.

Here is a protestor describing in vivid detail the killing of Antonio Mays Jr. by CHOP security, minutes after it happened while his blood is still wet on the street. The video was clipped from a stream recorded by Omari Salisbury, an independent reporter who lives and works on Capitol Hill. His coverage was some of the most immediately on-the-scene (warning - disturbing):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q5bA-iUPvqI&t=1m27s

You’re right that witnesses aren’t talking. This is part and parcel with the “didn’t see shit, don’t know shit” mantra of BLM/antifa protestors. As another user linked, there is video of protestors intentionally destroying the crime scene. Due to this lack of cooperation, Antonio Mays’ family may never receive justice.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#356

Post by [deleted] »

joeberon wrote: post #278
throwawayxyz123 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33 Racially charged ownership stickers. Many added to protect from racially charged vandalism. A familiar sight in 2020 USA. On the streets and online. Does your favorite open source project sport an out of place racial banner? True, the confidence of those in power in their ability to harm their targets increases gradually. But make no mistake, using bl…

> an out of place racial banner Are you talking about black lives matter here? If so that is the total opposite of what they meant. That is literally anti-authoritarian, anti-police killing innocent black people.

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#357

Post by dang »

anonunivgrad wrote: post #314
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine arming myself if I felt my neighbors or myself were in danger, but the idea of arming myself and my friends to drive to some other neighborhood or city to “protect” them is beyond anything that makes sense to me.

You really can’t imagine why vigilates’ sense of citizenship would extend beyond a neighborhood? And if we are assuming only selfish self interest, what happens in one neighborhood doesn’t stay there. I’m not saying their actions were right, but they’re not hard to understand.

Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological flamewar? As you know, this is not what HN is supposed to be for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#358

Post by slg »

dang wrote: post #353
bleepblorp wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting the accepted-by-the-rest-of-the-world reality about Trump, Trumpism, what the ideology stands for, and what the people who voted for it are endorsing is very much a taboo subject on HN. Indeed, as your experience demonstrates, posting the version of the electoral reality--namely, that Trump lost--that's accepted by all but 30% of Republicans is now taboo. Posts that touch on these issues will be censored eith…

People are rightly downvoting and flagging garden-variety political flamewar posts because they're off topic here. The passionate partisans of every flavor also do their share of downvoting and flagging, of course. But you don't need to invoke that as an explanation when political battle posts are being flagged. This is not a site for political battle. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I will just point out this basically proves my point. The question was what norms changed. I said a candidate won an election and some people won't acknowledge that which goes against previous norms. This is a simple fact confirmed by basically every credible news org in the country, but it is now apparently enough to be considered a "garden-variety political flamewar post".

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#359

Post by dang »

throwaway568468 wrote: post #144
jolux wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying he shot someone. That was alleged, and he was never arrested or charged. Like I said, some leftists are believers in armed self defense. I am not. But the fact of the matter is we will never know the full details of that case. I condemn bringing weapons to protests as fully as I condemn equating the role of violence on the left and the right in America right now.

Does it also apply for you to terrorists that commit suicide attacks? By definition they will never be arrested nor charged. Would you say that "we will never know" if they did kill people?

We've banned this account for using HN for political/ideological battle. That's not what this site is for.

Please don't create accounts to break the site rules with; it eventually gets your main account banned as well.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#360

Post by [deleted] »

jolux wrote: post #175
_iyig wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The armed occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge was also “mostly peaceful.” Much more peaceful than CHAZ/CHOP, in fact. I am friends with people who lived close by and visited the CHAZ/CHOP, and I watched live-streams from the CHAZ nearly 24/7 for the entire span of its existence. It was a lawless area patrolled by gun wielding far-left activists who routinely harassed journalists, ripped phones out of streamers’…

Where's your evidence that the security team were responsible for the shooting deaths of several people?

[deleted]
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