Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. This is why we need to repeal unnecessary government overreaches like the minimum wage and the 13th amendment.
I’m having trouble seeing how a Constitutional Amendment is government overreach. All amendments are voted on by the citizens, not just Congress.
Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
281–290 of 401 posts
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's anecdotal but I always chat with my Uber drivers and nearly 100% of them are driving full time. I assume it's a "most rides are driven by a full-timer, most drivers are part timers" situation. I don't really see why we need a third category, it should just be that some drivers are full time and some are not. I don't believe that Uber could sufficiently fulfill even half the rides with only the true part timers s…
According to a survey of SF drivers[0] 71% of drivers work 30 or more hours, and 50% work 40 or more. More troubling, 53% relied on gig work for all of their income. Another 10% said gig work accounted for at least 75% of their income. [0] https://transform.ucsc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/OnDema...
Not only are the authors of that survey biased, but they are outright admitting to manipulating the data to suit their ends. From the slides:
Key goal: Representative sample of on-demand _work_ being done in the city, not of all on-demand _workers_. (emphasis not mine)
The team making the study has selected parameters to examine basically exactly to produce a number where the majority of rideshare is full-time. So is it clear that most rideshare workers are full time? Definitely not. And the fact that the team has weighted their sampling in such a way makes me even more skeptical about the veracity of that fact when taken across the whole population of drivers.
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
you really don't see how weak this counterpoint is? e.g. if you break your hands what exactly are you going to do with your legs?
Wear a board on your front and back, with a message about worker protections, universal healthcare and walk around town spreading that message and hope it has an effect.
is this supposed to be facetious? because my point is exactly that there is nothing to do other than that and that to pretend that you can "elbow grease" and "work ethic" your way out of debilitating injury is just asinine.
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you even participating in conversation when you have not researched this at all? Uber doesn't forbid selling other services. Your point stands on flimsy sticks that are purely from your imagination.
Uber has signed deals allowing their drivers to sell other products during trips, I still bet its banned and poorly enforced at least. https://www.uber.com/newsroom/uber-cargo-teaming-raise-prote...
> I still bet
Full stop, this is when you cross the line into baseless speculation.
Unless you have solid objective facts, it's disingenuous to continue propping up an argument with meritless speculation.
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you put your brand on the chairs and if the customer likes them they can buy from you again When I go to a new city, I make note of great Uber drivers. I then hire them directly. Often, they become a porter of sorts. I pay them to drive but also e.g. for taking out laundry and recommending places of interest.
> I then hire them directly. Which can get them kicked off the app, and leave them with tens of thousands of dollars in car loans that they have no way of repaying. That's what makes them employees and not independent contractors, the fact that they aren't allowed to do this.
> and leave them with tens of thousands of dollars in car loans that they have no way of repaying
This assumes every single driver on the platform is a debtor of subprime auto loans.
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before Uber came along driving a cab was mostly a full time thing. My father was a cab driver for 30 years before Uber came onto the scene, and now he does Uber full time. A lot of Uber drivers I talk to are full time drivers.
Before Uber came along, flexible jobs that you could engage with at any point in time didn't really exist either. The "glass half full" way to think of it is that Uber bought work flexibility; and as it turns out the labor market values this flexibility with slightly lower wages. If you think we should out-regulate that, should we ban part time jobs too? How about we ban unpaid time off? Any barriers to work (i.e. re…
Piece work has existed for at least 500 years[1] and those were definitely "flexible jobs that you could engage with at any point in time." Unsurprisingly, piece-work employment also suffered from many labor issues[2]. Uber is just piece work for giving rides, and so should be governed by laws that protect piece-workers[3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work#Guild_system
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#287My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…
How would the AB5 law without 22 hurt him? What's wrong with part-time employment? Why is someone's beer money more important than someone else's full time subsistence?
AB5 without parttime employment would almost certainly force Uber to start scheduling shifts or putting arbitrary limits on the # of simultaneous drivers in the app (the law isn't written to explicitly require that, but it's a blatant side effect of requiring Uber et al to still pay minimum wage when the supply of drivers outstrips passenger demand)
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#288One element of Prop 22 which seems extreme to me are the voting requirements to one-day overturn the law: "A change to the law would require a seven-eighths majority in the California legislature." I realize that we don't want laws on the books that are continually changed, but that's an extremely steep climb, should the majority of the legislature feel that this law is problematic. They need virtual total agreement.
The whole point of prop 22 was to let the people override the legislature. AB5 passed with like 70% of the vote in the state assembly. If prop 22 only required a 2/3 majority to modify, then the state legislature could immediately repeal it. It s still only takes a simple majority to update it via another ballot initiative
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before Uber came along driving a cab was mostly a full time thing. My father was a cab driver for 30 years before Uber came onto the scene, and now he does Uber full time. A lot of Uber drivers I talk to are full time drivers.
Before Uber came along, flexible jobs that you could engage with at any point in time didn't really exist either. The "glass half full" way to think of it is that Uber bought work flexibility; and as it turns out the labor market values this flexibility with slightly lower wages. If you think we should out-regulate that, should we ban part time jobs too? How about we ban unpaid time off? Any barriers to work (i.e. re…
> flexible jobs that you could engage with at any point in time didn't really exist either
Sure they did, we called them “cottage industries”. You’ve always been able to buy from a farmer’s market or small general stores (who source a lot of their merchandise from random craftsmen). Craigslist pre-dates Uber, and classified ads pre-dates Craigslist. There are stores around the world specializing in hand-made and home-made items. Independent contractors have existed since the beginning of civilization, and any city in the world will have a generic handyman service for work around the house.
My wife just sold four candles, Uber wasn’t involved with that. My grandmother knits dishclothes and sells them to a local shop for distribution whenever she decides to go into town, Uber didn’t invent that.
Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22
#290When software companies switch to on-demand flex labor at below minimum wage everyone on this site who supports Prop 22 will be singing a different tune.
Prop 22 sets the base pay at 120% minimum wage