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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
181–190 of 426 posts
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not necessarily the actions, but the perceived intent by "the other side" that is important. Events become provocation draws provocation draws backlash, etc etc. I'm a fairly liberal person, but it doesn't take an inhuman amount of mental gymnastics to look at riots, anti-police sentiment, etc, and see a coordinated hostile agenda. I am lucky that I get to talk to both hardcore right and hardcore left people reg…
What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate? Who isn't living in reality here? This is not a far left position, and it's not the left that is driving FUD about US election integrity.
> What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate?
You should think the same way about this as you do about the "russia hacked the election" cries about how the 2016 election was illegitimate.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can find people of any background who will spout contradictory rhetoric. I don't think you're making this argument in good faith. 2016 was a whole lot closer than 2020, and Clinton conceded and there was no serious calculated attempt to overturn the election results by either the public at large, or people who had any power to do so. Equating that with what's going on now does not seem like an argument made in go…
I was hanging out in lefty circles in 2016; the faithless electorate idea was wildly popular, as was the "the popular vote should win." These were the last hope for many who were previously so confident.
It's true that the popular vote should decide the presidency but unfortunately it doesn't in the US. It's a bad sign that we keep electing presidents who didn't win a majority of the popular vote. Nonetheless, we have to follow the rules and processes in the Constitution until we get the opportunity to change them.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#184The most chilling part is "But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on th…
Unfortunately if/when people do speak out or rise up about abuses of/from authority they are countered by bootlickers, or people who genuinely believe 'it could never happen here'.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're supposed to recognize that many of your positions look equally bizarre and scary to the other side, and conclude that to a significant degree this is a gap in understanding rather than a gap in morals.
Yes, but what matters most is not how my beliefs appear to the other side, but whose beliefs are closest to the truth. I have little control over what other people believe, but I have some control over what I believe, and I strive to be rational and realistic and follow the truth.
That depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve. If you want to move beyond self satisfaction and actually effect change, you need to be concerned with how your message is conveyed.
What are your beliefs for?
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#186This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…
Just watched The Sound of Music again a few weeks ago. As a kid I just knew the bad guys come and the heroes outsmart them.
These days, I see more and more the acting chops of Christopher Plummer - the bad guys are already here and all that's left is hope and trying to maintain a bubble for your children. From scene one he is a goose on a pond. Serene above the waterline but roiling below.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody's saying they don't have a right to challenge irregularities, but many government officials say this was the most secure election in American history and deny any evidence of systemic fraud: https://apnews.com/article/top-officials-elections-most-secu...
I agree it was a secure election. What I mean to say is that this is a perception issue. There is a belief along many on the right that elements of the civil service, the media, and the educated classes are strongly biased against Donald Trump and would like to undermine him. To be honest, they are probably right (although I would argue that the bias is warranted given Trump's abysmal job performance). They therefore…
> Trying to kick the Republicans while they are down , chastising them them for using legal means to fight the outcome of the election, or engaging in grievance politics just further reinforces the perception that the left isn't operating in good faith.
You're getting this backwards. The legal means are not there to fight the outcome of the election, they are there to make sure every vote is counted properly. This is a subtle but important difference: nobody denies that there may be minor and insignificant improprieties in this election, as there are whenever a country of 300 million people votes. What is being denied is that there was whole-scale interference with the election system. I'm fairly confident that they will not be able to convince a court that there was, but that doesn't make it ok that they are filing lawsuits on no evidence. People being upset about an election outcome is no reason to ignore the reality of this situation.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can start with Time's debunking[1], but really should read what Mueller has written and said, both the report and following articles and interviews. [1] https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/ Edited in response to Parent's edit: "While none of these acts amounted to the crime of conspiracy, all could be described as “collusion.” You don't appear to be having an honest conversation, so I'll bid y…
2nd edit: what the heck, let's just quote justsecurity.org's summary of the Mueller report[2]: "1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin. 2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails. 3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared…
You omit, from the very article there:
"Although the Mueller Report does not squarely address these questions of “collusion” that fall outside the scope of potential criminal liability, it can be mined for substantive information that provides some meaningful answers." Which precedes all the claims.
So even there it's written as scare quotes "collusion" while admitting that that "falls outside the scope of potential criminal liability."
In short, Trump's yes men behaved then as stupid as they continued to behave later, including now, but being stupid wasn't a crime. Sadly, the obsession of Democrats with all that wasn't less stupid (obviously, I'm writing completely non-partisan).
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s a lot to unpack in your post, but I’d just like to focus on “car attacks” here. You mention a “car attack” in Seattle. In actual fact, the incident I assume you mean was by all outward indicators a tragic accident, not a planned attack such as Charlottesville in 2017. Driver Dawit Kelete (who is black, and not politically affiliated) was high on pills when he plowed through BLM protestors occupying a section…
No, what I'm talking about is the one that took place on CH, during the East Precinct protests, not the freeway. You obviously don't live in Seattle. The driver 'accidentally' turned, with speed, off an arterial, into the protest street, and despite having clear visibility of hundreds of people in his line of travel, kept driving, with people scattering out of his way. He stopped when he hit a blockade, shot at one p…
Enough with the "You obviously don't live in Seattle." The event described by _iyig really did happen and was described accurately (except the "high on pills" part, I haven't seen any report of that, news I saw said he took a field sobriety test and was found to be unimpaired).
Unless you directly witnessed these events (which few people did, even amongst Seattleites), then you're getting your information second-hand just like everyone else.
Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)
#190This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…
> Both the left and the right in the US have paramilitaries (antifa, proud boys).
If you believe this, you are severely misinformed; if you don't believe this, you are a liar. Either way, it is nefarious.
I've been to every single counter-protest of the proud boys in Portland.
Who brings guns? Proud boys, 3%ers, PatPrayer, and Trump supporters.
Who doesn't bring guns? Counter protestors.
Who gets arrested from bringing guns to a protest? No one.
Who protects the proud boys? The police.
Who gets shot at by police? Counter protestors.
I had a gun pointed at me by a Proud Boy amongst his militia several months ago. I've been bear-sprayed but thugs with ARs strapped to their bloated bellies. Don't for one instant try to pull this "both sides have mililitias" bullshit.
It is so clearly right-wing propaganda.
P.S. And I know what you are about to say next, "But a Trump supporter got shot in portland..." YEs, he did, and it was awful, and then the Feds shot the perp w/o due process, while Rittenhouse gets a pat on the back. There were NOT heavily-armed groups of counter protestors on the left, but there sure as hell are from the right, all the time.