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Your Computer Isn't Yours

sneak.berlin

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Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#661

Post by zepto »

vetinari wrote: post #651
zepto wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a sentiment that I partially agree with. I frequently argue that iOS (for example) represents more than a decade of investment, so we can’t expect an alternative to pop up overnight. However using a Linux desktop simply is not a step in any particular direction. It is especially meaningless for non-developers to do if one of the other platforms just works for them. Steps in the right direction involve develop…

It works both ways: Windows (or Mac) are meaningless to any user, who can be served by Linux. The first step in solving problems that corporate OSes have solved is identifying them. For example, one of the problems is stable/versioned/sandboxable/distro-agnostic ABIs and that is something that is being worked on and they are quite usable nowadays. The related problem is, that the corporate-software is ignoring them (…

It’s easy to know what Apple is going to support and for how long, and how much warning you’ll get when things are deprecated.

How would I even begin to know the answer to these questions when it comes to the Linux technologies you are naming.

Based on what I read here, the community of people who do use them isn’t even sure.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#662

Post by zepto »

pizza234 wrote: post #643
zepto wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely conceding the point. Nothing but the browser is up to par, and even that is not as ‘polished’. If all people need is a browser, they should buy ChromeOS or an iPad.

"Not as polished" doesn't imply "not up to par". Ironically, one of your two suggestions is a Linux distribution.

Android is a Linux distribution and MacOS is a FreeBSD distribution.

There is nothing ironic about that. Users don’t know and don’t care.

Are you equating the presence of the Linux kernel with some notion of software freedom or independence from corporate control?

If all people want to use is a browser, Linux is irrelevant.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#664

Post by orestarod »

pdkl95 wrote: post #467
GuB-42 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gen Z can get real general-purpose computers with a development environment for cheap. The new Raspberry Pi 400 is a modern take on home computers like the C64, but 15 times cheaper. Pi 400 full kit: $100, C64: $595 (1982) / $1576 (inflation adjusted for 2019). The computers are not just getting cheaper, educative material is easier than ever to find. Because modern computers are much more complex and do much more th…

> The new Raspberry Pi 400 Learning about the Raspberry Pi is nice, but that doesn't help preserve the institutional knowledge needed to build system/low-level features in a modern OS. I'm not talking about teaching kids to program; I'm concerned about preserving in the future the knowledge of how to create all of the complex tech we use today. Many civilizations throughout history collapsed after they lost the techn…

It was always a tiny minority of the general population that had real knowledge and capabilities of creating the actual technological equipment widely used by the said general population. In the same vein, there are no less people capable of low/OS level programming than before, and you can't expect every proficient user, even a power user or e.g. the now numerous web developers, to be at this level of ability.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#665

Post by larntz »

II2II wrote: post #385
kybernetikos wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fifth reason - many many laptops have at least some piece of hardware or behaviour that requires fiddling to get to work on major linux systems. Sometimes it's power management, sometimes it's running with multiple monitors or 3d acceleration or the touchscreen, sometimes it's getting the touchpad to work properly or the fingerprint reader.... In my experience, there's usually something .

While this may be true, we should still be impressed by the number of laptops Linux operates flawlessly on. Very few people would expect Windows to run properly on a MacBook and far fewer would expect macOS to run on a generic PC. Yet people expect Linux to work flawlessly on almost anything thrown at it. From my experience, it does a very good job of this (at least in recent years).

I started to reply earlier in the thread and then decided not to, but basically what I wanted to say was this.

I have used Linux as a daily driver desktop for years, but I don't just buy random hardware and expect it to work. I do some research first and make sure what I buy works well enough with Linux to meet my needs.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#666

Post by LockAndLol »

If you're agreeing with the article, then get a computer/laptop that supports linux or even better, buy one that supports companies that support opensource.

https://linuxpreloaded.com/ has a nice list of shops that sell devices with linux preloaded. Purism, System76 and others also contribute code to the OS ecosystem which means purchasing from them helps the community at large.

You can also run Linux on your Mac and reduce e-waste. Check https://linux-hardware.org/index.php?view=search_computer&co... to see how well it is supported.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#667

Post by vetinari »

zepto wrote: post #661
vetinari wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works both ways: Windows (or Mac) are meaningless to any user, who can be served by Linux. The first step in solving problems that corporate OSes have solved is identifying them. For example, one of the problems is stable/versioned/sandboxable/distro-agnostic ABIs and that is something that is being worked on and they are quite usable nowadays. The related problem is, that the corporate-software is ignoring them (…

It’s easy to know what Apple is going to support and for how long, and how much warning you’ll get when things are deprecated. How would I even begin to know the answer to these questions when it comes to the Linux technologies you are naming. Based on what I read here, the community of people who do use them isn’t even sure.

Is it? For few things yes (OpenGL or 32-bit depreciation); other things are simply not found in the new releases (Kerberos Ticket Viewer, TWAIN). Then there's a middle ground, where there is a window of few months to make significant architectural changes to your product (see VPNs and personal firewalls).

So excuse me, I'm going to look for a new release of Cisco VPN that works with Big Sur. Of course, it is customer's VPN, and they don't care that their vendors might use Mac, so no help from them, it is my problem now.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#668

Post by npteljes »

davidwparker wrote: post #593
christophilus wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably 90% of developers I've worked with in the past 5 years used a Mac, and really wanted to do so. I know a handful that left Linux to do it, and have told me they can't imagine going back. I'm not sure that your'e right about developers. I do know that my next machine will be Linux. I'm probably going to put together a desktop for my office, and I'll buy a System76 laptop or whatever for those times when I want…

Anecodote- I was on OSX for ~9 years +/-1 or 2 years. Came from Linux (Ubuntu) and Windows for ~10 years before. I made a switch a year ago back to the same (Windows + Linux) and I've been nothing but happy. I know people tend to complain about Linux on the desktop, but I had great experiences a decade ago, and I do again.

I always have complaints about my Linux system, until I realize that my Windows colleagues do the same. It shit here, shit there, shit anywhere I imagine. I personally had good luck so far, each of my machines worked well with Linux out of the box, and I have to realize that I had around the same amount of issues as I did in my Windows days.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#669

Post by zepto »

wott wrote: post #598
a_c_s wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, they just need an expert to install things for them to get started... that's not simple enough for people who don't have an expert they can call.

Why could anyone's auntie do it when they needed MS-DOS or Windows installed in the 90s, and they could not do it any more today? The 'expert' being a neighbour, the little nephew himself, or whichever friend of the family.

The world outside of Linux has moved on from people needing experts to set up computers.

Today we just tell auntie to buy an iPad.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#670

Post by npteljes »

ForHackernews wrote: post #235
deadbunny wrote: post #16

Yet despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth - both in the article and in the comments here in the various threads - people are still making excuses for continuing to use Apple/Google/Microsoft/et al products because the alternatives are a bit rough round the edges. These companies have repeatedly shown that they don't respect people's privacy and people have resoundingly responded that neither do they. I would…

It's super infuriating reading posts from developers who are like "Well I would love to use Linux, but I can't because the touchpad drivers don't behave exactly the way they do under MacOS..."

It was super frustrating until I got used to the Linux way of handling, and then the other system was the weird one. Companies don't mind this effect at all I think, it increases their retention.
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