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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#51

Post by laszlokorte »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #7
laszlokorte wrote: post #3

Reads like a mirror of whats currently happening regarding all the covid associated law changes. /edit I added some more context in a child comment

The current law changes are definitely terrifying, but I too would like to hear some specific points about how these are similar situations.

I tried to list a few examples that came to my mind in a sibling comment. But the issue is that it's not just about specific examples but about the overall drift in perspective, production of fear and slooow but steady changes. From my understanding that's exactly one of the points the OP article touched uppon: If you ask for specific examples of bad changes I can name a few and you can justfy each of them in one way or another. But the sum of it all points to a really bad outcome from which we all be looking back in a few years and will wonder how we got there.

Actually the downvotes my original comment receives demonstrate the exact behavior the OP article describes.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#52

Post by ajvs »

jolux wrote: post #32
anonunivgrad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake spin meant to assuage the girondins, the well-to-do leftists. The footage and evidence is extensive and obvious.

This is based on information from BlueLeaks, which you're free to call fake spin, and I am free to disagree with you on.

There's nothing in that article suggesting a false flag. At most Hina Shamsi suggests that leftist actions are being judged more harshly.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#53

Post by pcj-github »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

It is disheartening that a person such as yourself (looked at your bio) would draw these false equivalences between radicalism on the right and left. Four years ago these concepts would not have even remotely been part of your vocabulary, but now you sort of lay down and accept it as "we're screwed two ways over?" This is exactly the kind of psychological creep eluded to in the article.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#54

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

lisper wrote: post #20
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

You're missing substantial historical perspective here. In both 2000 and 2004 - the last two Republican presidential victories that are old enough to talk about without inflaming modern political tensions - Congressional representatives on the left attempted to block the counting of electoral college votes from a crucial swing state. I don't mean to defend these kinds of challenges, I think they're dumb, but they're sadly quite common.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#55

Post by jolux »

stickyricky wrote: post #45
jolux wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That man never got a trial, he was killed extrajudicially: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/us/michael-reinoehl-antif... .

That does not contradict my point.

You're saying he shot someone. That was alleged, and he was never arrested or charged. Like I said, some leftists are believers in armed self defense. I am not. But the fact of the matter is we will never know the full details of that case. I condemn bringing weapons to protests as fully as I condemn equating the role of violence on the left and the right in America right now.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#56

Post by youareostriches »

commandlinefan wrote: post #40
lisper wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

> does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections You may not be old enough to remember, but Al Gore (democrat) did _exactly_ this 20 years ago.

Al Gore never claimed that he was the only legitimate winner months before the election began and that any result in which he lost would be fraudulent.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#57

Post by _iyig »

ajvs wrote: post #35
jolux wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

Antifa have committed numerous enough acts of violence to be labeled a domestic terrorist group and instead of plots you have actual congressmen (Steve Scalise) being shot by a leftist. HN is a place for avoiding our biases not doubling down on them.

Don’t forget Aaron Danielson, Lee Keltner, David Dorn, and Antonio Mays Jr., if for not other reason than to understand anger on the right (and from moderates) at their deaths.

edit: Downvoted for relevant, if uncomfortable factual statements on HN? I thought we were better than this.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/08/aaron-jay-daniel...

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/16/lee-keltner-wife-want...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_David_Dorn

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-wha...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#58

Post by ajvs »

lisper wrote: post #20
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

After the last election there was the attempted impeachment and RussiaGate witch hunt which found no evidence that Trump conspired with Russia to influence the election. It's pretty brazen to ignore that ans say the left never disputed the election outcome.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#59

Post by jolux »

ajvs wrote: post #52
jolux wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is based on information from BlueLeaks, which you're free to call fake spin, and I am free to disagree with you on.

There's nothing in that article suggesting a false flag. At most Hina Shamsi suggests that leftist actions are being judged more harshly.

Fair enough. Why would right-wingers show up to a left-wing protest with violent intentions? There's no legitimate reason, but I apologize for extrapolating from their actions.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#60

Post by coliveira »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

"Great people on both sides", that's the rally chant of the US president...
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