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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#31
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly is rational middle in your view? Who exactly is right wing side and who exactly is left wing side? Is democratic party along with Joe Biden really controlling violent antifa? Is antifa actually killing people and attempting kidnappings? Is democratic party really attacking elections the way president is now? The rational middle will be dwindling as long as they are always referred to in abstract without e…

I can’t speak for the person you’re asking, but Tulsi Gabbard is representative of what I see as the rational middle.

The only way you can see Tulsi as the "middle" is because the overton window has slammed so far right. In a rational society, Biden and Obama would be considered middle and AOC/Bernie left.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#32
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the violence at protests this past summer was actually organized by right-wing extremists, possibly as a false flag: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po...

Fake spin meant to assuage the girondins, the well-to-do leftists. The footage and evidence is extensive and obvious.

This is based on information from BlueLeaks, which you're free to call fake spin, and I am free to disagree with you on.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#33
post #9
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

> showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters.

In Portland, an anti-fascist protestor shot a man (rightly or wrongly). Anti-fascists can and do show up with weapons. It is not a false equivalence to say so.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#34
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

The moment you decide that everyone else is crazy and you are the rational guy in the middle, it's time to take a step back.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#35
post #9
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

Antifa have committed numerous enough acts of violence to be labeled a domestic terrorist group and instead of plots you have actual congressmen (Steve Scalise) being shot by a leftist. HN is a place for avoiding our biases not doubling down on them.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#36
post #29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Both the left and the right [...] call basic and decent democratic norms into question (free speech, elections). I only see Republicans doing this, but I am not American so perhaps my perspective is not as acute as someone "on the inside". Can you link to instances of Democrats calling free speech and elections into question?

I suppose you missed the 3-year period where Trump was supposedly a Russian agent who stole the election? That's just the tenor of American politics right now in general.

No one made that claim except right wing media. They said, and this was proven, there was collusion among members of his campaign to influence the election.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#37
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

You made the mistake of questioning the purity of the "Left".

It angers the hive-mind.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#38
post #9
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

How quickly we forget the heavily-armed antifa militia that occupied 3 city blocks in downtown Seattle, whose assault rifle-wielding “security team” assaulted journalists, intimidated residents, and murdered an unarmed black teenager.

Residents and businesses owners are currently suing the city for abandoning the neighborhood’s police station, providing porta-potties to the armed occupiers, and ceding control of this area to the violent mob for roughly a month.

edit: Downvoted for relevant, if uncomfortable factual statements on HN? I thought we were better than this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone

https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/07/seattle-times-rep...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#39
post #4

Reads like a mirror of whats currently happening regarding all the covid associated law changes. /edit I added some more context in a child comment

Can you give an example?

I see that I am downvoted and I guess it is because my comment has been very simplistic and not explained well.

I will try (in a perspective here from Germany):

In general nothing here is really bad, nobody is killed or deported. So of course a comparison to the linked article is an exaggeration. But nonetheless since April the general mood in the country is be-surprised-and-accept driven: Businesses are closed on short term (last time on a friday end of september it was decided that on monday all restaurants, sport centers etc) must close (*takaway only). Because covid is propagated as this extreme dangerous risk nobody can complain. The whole public is only waiting what next rule is announced from week to week or month to month. People who refuse to wear a mask (for various reasons in various situations) are losing their jobs - either because the employer wants to get rid of them anyway and uses the not-mask-wearing as excuse or because their is real hate and fear between people in different groups. Their is no real philosophically based discussion about risk realted tradeoffs - only dictated policy.

And in the background basic laws are rewritten/adjusted to reduce the overall freedom. For example here in Germany a basic right of privacy at home so except with an order of a judge the police is not allowed to enter. But it is tried (or even succeeded? I do not know) to allow police to enter homes in general in order to check if more than X people are inside. Or it is argued that people who violate a quarantine order should be locked into a psychiatry. Some (few) people fight back but in genral changes are just announced and accepted.

It's a really slow process so many do not or want not to notice it but since april there are a lot of long term changes on the way that will alter the whole system to be more tolitarian/less free and which for sure will persist even after covid - all with covid as excuse.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#40
post #20
post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

> does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections

You may not be old enough to remember, but Al Gore (democrat) did _exactly_ this 20 years ago.

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