They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) • Hacker News Board

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#11

Post by btilly » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

tines wrote: post #4

laszlokorte wrote: post #3

Reads like a mirror of whats currently happening regarding all the covid associated law changes. /edit I added some more context in a child comment

Can you give an example?

We are in a state of emergency where the government has taken pretty direct control of people's lives, and businesses only remain in existence due to massive government intervention.

It is for a good cause. However a couple of years from now, there will remain a temptation to use the same tools to address whatever normal problems we have. And that is a big step towards a planned economy like the Soviet Union had.

It may sound like a wild conspiracy theory, and certainly the people who are doing it don't intend any such end. However I cannot forget that 9/11 has transformed us into a permanent surveillance state where our communications are tracked, travel by plane involves a search where someone gets to look at your privates, and it is considered normal in low crime neighborhoods to require security badges and/or passing armed guards to get into office buildings. If you'd asked the people who did that whether they had any such intent, I'm sure that they would have said no.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#12

Post by rbecker » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #9

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

Instead, they're chanting "White silence equals violence". I'm sure demonization of a group that's on the way to becoming a minority will work out great.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#13

Post by na85 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

>Both the left and the right [...] call basic and decent democratic norms into question (free speech, elections).

I only see Republicans doing this, but I am not American so perhaps my perspective is not as acute as someone "on the inside". Can you link to instances of Democrats calling free speech and elections into question?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#14

Post by anonunivgrad » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #9

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

The left and right deploy violence differently. Right wing violence is more precise, organized, surgical. Left wing violence is more chaotic, mob-driven, indiscriminate. Hence the mass rioting and destruction this summer, tacitly supported by major sections of the left-wing power structure in the US (local government and media).

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#15

Post by hnhg » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #5

This however goes only for some non Jewish Germans - nazi party sympathizers. The social democrats and their sympatizant were attacked in 1933, right after Hitler got to power. That is when first camps were created. They housed political opponents. Plus, politically unreliable people and Jews they were excluded from civil service in 1933. The German Jews were also under no illusion that they were free. In April 1933,…

It's worth mentioning for context that they gained power via a coalition government and the Reichstag fire: 'In January 1933, the Nazis apparently had only 32% of the seats.' They really did seize control very quickly from that position.

Full quote:

'After the November 1932 German federal election, the National Socialist Workers (Nazi) Party had a plurality, not a majority; the Communists posted gains. Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor and head of the coalition government on 30 January 1933. As Chancellor, Hitler asked German President Paul von Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag and call for a new parliamentary election. The date set for the elections was 5 March 1933. Hitler's aim was first to acquire a National Socialist majority, to secure his position and to remove the communist opposition. If prompted or desired, the President could remove the Chancellor. Hitler hoped to abolish democracy in a more or less legal fashion, by passing the Enabling Act. The Enabling Act was a special law that gave the Chancellor the power to pass laws by decree, without the involvement of the Reichstag. These special powers would remain in effect for four years, after which time they were eligible to be renewed. Under the Weimar Constitution, the President could rule by decree in times of emergency using Article 48.[7] The unprecedented element of the Enabling Act was that the Chancellor possessed the powers. An Enabling Act was only supposed to be passed in times of extreme emergency and had only been used once, in 1923–24 when the government used an Enabling Act to end hyperinflation. To pass an Enabling Act required a two-thirds majority vote in the Reichstag. In January 1933, the Nazis had only 32% of the seats.'

[source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#16

Post by jvanderbot » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #9

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

It's not necessarily the actions, but the perceived intent by "the other side" that is important. Events become provocation draws provocation draws backlash, etc etc.

I'm a fairly liberal person, but it doesn't take an inhuman amount of mental gymnastics to look at riots, anti-police sentiment, etc, and see a coordinated hostile agenda. I am lucky that I get to talk to both hardcore right and hardcore left people regularly, and they both tend to follow logical interpretations to inevitably polarizing and unhealthy conclusions. Both are not living in current reality, they are projecting their beliefs about the other side's agenda based on what they see on the news, and saying "I don't want to live in that world".

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#17

Post by goat_whisperer » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Ah, yes. There were very fine people on both sides!

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#18

Post by didericis » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #10

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Who exactly is rational middle in your view? Who exactly is right wing side and who exactly is left wing side? Is democratic party along with Joe Biden really controlling violent antifa? Is antifa actually killing people and attempting kidnappings? Is democratic party really attacking elections the way president is now? The rational middle will be dwindling as long as they are always referred to in abstract without e…

I can’t speak for the person you’re asking, but Tulsi Gabbard is representative of what I see as the rational middle.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#19

Post by vincentmarle » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

There is no “antifa”, everyone in the US should be antifascist.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#20

Post by lisper » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things are key. Once you subscribe to the idea that whatever the Dear Leader says is true, evidence be damned, you are lost. The right is doing this even as I write this. The left never has.