Your Computer Isn't Yours • Hacker News Board

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#581

Post by fluidcruft » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

kebman wrote: post #174

deadbunny wrote: post #16

Yet despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth - both in the article and in the comments here in the various threads - people are still making excuses for continuing to use Apple/Google/Microsoft/et al products because the alternatives are a bit rough round the edges. These companies have repeatedly shown that they don't respect people's privacy and people have resoundingly responded that neither do they. I would…

I'm not. Since the last few iterations of Apple hardware and OS software, I've decided to switch to something else. I'm also advicing all friends and collegues to do the same. There is simply no reason to stay with Apple anymore as a professional. It used to be stability and ease of use, but Windows has since closed that gap, and Linux is a close second (and a must for programming). Most likely that means I'll run a…

I don't even bother dual-boot anymore and just use WSL. Windows has basically become what OS X used to be except better because it's actually Windows and actually Linux. It just goes back to Apple not caring one iota about developers. Focusing on developers used to be Microsoft's strong suit and they've positioned themselves well for that again.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#582

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #467

GuB-42 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gen Z can get real general-purpose computers with a development environment for cheap. The new Raspberry Pi 400 is a modern take on home computers like the C64, but 15 times cheaper. Pi 400 full kit: $100, C64: $595 (1982) / $1576 (inflation adjusted for 2019). The computers are not just getting cheaper, educative material is easier than ever to find. Because modern computers are much more complex and do much more th…

> The new Raspberry Pi 400 Learning about the Raspberry Pi is nice, but that doesn't help preserve the institutional knowledge needed to build system/low-level features in a modern OS. I'm not talking about teaching kids to program; I'm concerned about preserving in the future the knowledge of how to create all of the complex tech we use today. Many civilizations throughout history collapsed after they lost the techn…

What you're saying was truer in the '00s when 'scopes, logic analyzers, etc. were professional instruments costing thousands and FPGAs were inaccessible to all but the most dedicated and wealthy hobbyists. Today, with adequate hobbyist-grade instruments and dev boards available in the $100-200 range pretty much anywhere you look, really, the situation for low level engineers and developers is better than it's been for years and, in some ways, even better than the '70s heyday of homebrew computers.

The problem is more the lack of interest. Low level systems development is hard, a computer engineering degree is hella hard, and all the hype and easy money was in following the webdev career path starting from the late '90s dotcom boom.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#583

Post by feanaro » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #554

feanaro wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And before "have you tried this *nix distro??" comments appear Your style of comment is also quite the meme at this point, though. I always reply with: if my dad, mom, grandfather and other 10+ members of my family can use Mint and I have to do minimal maintenance for them, much less frequently than with Windows, then so can you.

Yeah, because your family members definitely represent literally every possible use case in the the world anyone could possibly have for a computer. Ugh.

Did I say definitely, literally every and could possibly? Notice to what I am replying:

> [..] they are still too hard to setup and nowhere near as user-friendly for most people on an everyday basis.

I think my comment is a fair rebuttal of nowhere near and most. If it was true, all of my family members would have to be outliers, which is statistically improbable. The more credible explanation is that it is not really true (and in my opinion, it clearly isn't).

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#584

Post by zepto » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

dancemethis wrote: post #298

zepto wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok - so it’s complete bullshit. iMessage is end to end encrypted. There is no back door. The article is lying. On the other hand it’s true that iCloud backups are not encrypted. That’s a major problem. Worse in many ways since all your private documents, tax returns etc, are in there too. But let’s not lie about iMessage not being end to end encrypted. It certainly is. The problem is that the end is then backed up to…

Why are you so quick to defend proprietary software against users? No way to show from proprietary crap that whatever potentially bogus encryption iMessage clients pretend to have isn't bypassed on the server side. And Apple has historically been hostile to user privacy. Users are the weakest link on the chain. They should be pre-emptively defended. Not the trillionaire companies. They should have the burden to prove…

Who should ‘defend’ these weak users? The government?

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#585

Post by lcall » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

I have personally seen many examples that make me agree with this.

Really, if someone wants to get off the Microsoft/Apple financial/technology/control/they-own-your-technology-and-you-cant-always-make-your-own-decisions treadmill, I think you have to decide that slightly less inconvenience (if that) is worth having greatly increased trust and local control. And Debian (or maybe Devuan) Linux (then installing something like LXDE or XFCE) isn't perfect, but it is very easy to install and manage, IMO, and they have a great track record of stability (compared to others anyway), due to how to they manage security, freedom, and overall stability (for example, what you learn is likely to last a long time w/o having to relearn, relatively few bad surprises, excellent documentation, etc. I like OpenBSD, but if I couldn't, next would probably be Debian or Devuan for more reasons I have posted on HN at other times. Further opinions/links on these at my web site...)

Edit: I installed Debian for my wife and a number of other locals. It was easy. I recommend adding the package that installs automatic updates (as root: aptitude install unattended-upgrades), and setting "umask 0007" in the default profile, and learning a little, can recommend some other things. BUT: my wife (a public school special ed teacher) doesn't know about those things and doesn't have to. People can use it without "learning linux" or having more than 5 min or general orientation, just like they used Windows XP, to do all their browsing, whatever, thousands of free apps available, and then one can grow from there, at one's own pace! :)

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#586

Post by xtracto » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

scns wrote: post #363

deepstack wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has NOT being the same after steve is gone. It is MS 2.0 now! With better design and products of course, none the less the business practices are the same. Much this is enforced by the current economic and political system.

Yep, Steve Blank wrote an article analysing the situation in 2016: https://www.inc.com/steve-blank/tim-cook-steve-ballmer-visio...

That was a really good read, it really explains what has been happening to Apple in its post-Jobs life.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#587

Post by rmoriz » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #377

ThePhysicist wrote: post #143

What we poor souls didn't understand all these years is that we're effectively helping other companies to steal from Apple by running software that isn't distributed via their app store [1]. I think now that Apple has learned from iOS how profitable a walled garden business model is they are trying to bring that model to the PC world as well. Shipping hardware with their own processors is an important step in that di…

> people have to get used to seeing computers as closed-source devices with app stores Consider all of the school age kids using chromebooks, many of them their 1st computer. Will they care in 10 years as adults that their Mac doesn't allow programs to be installed from "untrusted sources"? Unfortunately, this transition probably won't phase them.

They won't be able to build a disruptive startup or a modest lifestyle business anymore without having to pay upfront and play by the rules of big tech. But nobody will be so they won't feel that something was taken away from them.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#588

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

feanaro wrote: post #583

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because your family members definitely represent literally every possible use case in the the world anyone could possibly have for a computer. Ugh.

Did I say definitely , literally every and could possibly ? Notice to what I am replying: > [..] they are still too hard to setup and nowhere near as user-friendly for most people on an everyday basis. I think my comment is a fair rebuttal of nowhere near and most . If it was true, all of my family members would have to be outliers, which is statistically improbable. The more credible explanation is that it is not re…

I think you're being disingenuous about what constitutes "most people" in the context of desktop computing, but alright fair enough, I I seem to have read more into your comment than was intended.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#589

Post by jleach82 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

II2II wrote: post #245

rsanheim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pointed out a core problem here, and a common blindspot with the HN crowd: > continuing to use Apple/Google/Microsoft That is probably 98%+ of devices that most typical people use for everyday computing, across phone, laptop, and desktop. Whether it is an android device, an iPhone, a Dell laptop or a new M1 macbook you are beholden to a corporation that doesn't care about privacy. I would argue that Apple cares a…

> And before "have you tried this *nix distro??" comments appear, they are still too hard to setup and nowhere near as user-friendly for most people on an everyday basis. Uh, no. There are many reasons why people don't use Linux. The easy of setup and use lines are pure nonsense. Many Linux distributions have been easier to setup and use since at least the introduction of Ubuntu, and perhaps earlier. Just pop in the…

I got fed up with Win10 last year and finally switched to a Mint distro. I run a software development company that works on the MS stack. I stuck with Mint for six months and finally switched back to Windows.

I didn't find it particularly difficult to set up. Some things are much easier (TAP drivers for connecting to multiple VPNs and running side by side remote sessions to difficult workstations across different networks, for instance). Even setting up a Windows virtual box was no biggie.

There's two reasons I switched back: 1) lack of consistency across applications is hampering to productivity, and 2) lack of stability in the application/tooling is hampering to productivity.

I gave myself 6 months to let myself get used to it, and there's a great many things I loved about it, but in the end it was less of a hurdle to deal with Win10's oddities than it was do deal with various inconsistencies and "usage maintenance" of getting having a suitable, productive workspace across Linux (and yes, I realize a large part of this was due to the fact I essentially run an MS-development shop and therefore have to work with MS tooling, but on the other hand, everyone working in any end-user business scenario has to work with Office documents, etc.)

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#590

Post by rmoriz » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #290

EliRivers wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long gone. The last time I had a conversation here about what a "hacker" is, there was a sizeable contingent who defined it as "someone who knows how to write computer programs". If that hacker ethic lives, it's not in people labelled "hackers" anymore.

It's alive and kicking, but certainly not on "hacker" "news" or SV. See all the events like CCC and the fediverse.

I know so many CCC people who have trouble to make a living or are (un/happily) employed by companies that went all in Apple, Google, Mirosoft, AWS.

Many for sure are brilliant brains but they lack to monetize it. To break or stop near-monopoly/walled garden systems you have to dismantle them through the market. Build better/cheaper (primary) alternatives which are free and open (secondary).

IMHO mainstream only values convenience and price, freedom is only a "nice to have" item and when it requires more work it is a no-starter.