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Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

theguardian.com

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Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#101

Post by _alex_ »

pixelbash wrote: post #31
sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point, but if your education is not in demand, I don't see a reason to think that driving a car, something that 80+% of American adults are capable of doing, should provide a full household income on 40 hours per week of effort. That initial condition (your education is not in demand) definitely represents a tough position, but it's not clear that it's ride-sharing's "fault" in any way. Instead, it seem…

Sorry, are you saying that working a 40 hour week shouldn't earn a living wage if it's a non-specialised skill?

wages are a market. "should" or "shouldn't" is irrelevant

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#102

Post by Alex3917 »

ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

> I feel strongly like this law was pushed by people who want Uber to be a full-time job. It’s not.

Does the app give him the contact info for each of his passengers after every ride so that he can own the business relationship with them? If not then he's an employee, not an independent contractor. The number of hours worked per month is a complete red herring.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#103

Post by dannyw »

tru3_power wrote: post #86
ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

Before Uber came along driving a cab was mostly a full time thing. My father was a cab driver for 30 years before Uber came onto the scene, and now he does Uber full time. A lot of Uber drivers I talk to are full time drivers.

Before Uber came along, flexible jobs that you could engage with at any point in time didn't really exist either.

The "glass half full" way to think of it is that Uber bought work flexibility; and as it turns out the labor market values this flexibility with slightly lower wages.

If you think we should out-regulate that, should we ban part time jobs too? How about we ban unpaid time off?

Any barriers to work (i.e. regulation) just accelerates AI taking over all the jobs. Anything that drives up the cost of labour, just means more automation like self-serve kiosks or robo security guards today; and who knows what tomorrow.

If you want to solve societal inequality and provide a safety net, which is something I 100% back, do that through taxation + a universal basic income.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#104

Post by JamesBarney »

esrauch wrote: post #69
ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

It's anecdotal but I always chat with my Uber drivers and nearly 100% of them are driving full time. I assume it's a "most rides are driven by a full-timer, most drivers are part timers" situation. I don't really see why we need a third category, it should just be that some drivers are full time and some are not. I don't believe that Uber could sufficiently fulfill even half the rides with only the true part timers s…

Where are you taking Ubers? I'm surprised by this since even low level entry jobs, like hostessing(sp?), working at the grocery store, delivering pizza, all pay better than Uber.

In Houston almost everyone I talked to were - retired, raising kids, had another jobs, going to school, or had some health issues that prevented full time employment.

The vast majority of the economy is made up of jobs where a company tells you when to show up, when to go home, and tries to schedule you for 38 hrs. Why can't we have just one job for people who have life circumstances that require flexibility.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#105

Post by qorrect »

jowsie wrote: post #91
qorrect wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber is still bleeding money, unionizing would essentially put Uber out of business.

If a company can't both sustain itself and its employees financially, surely that's a failed business? If the only way you can survive is by exploiting the poor, maybe you should be rethinking your strategy.

| exploiting the poor

I think a lot of those people wouldn't have jobs otherwise, is something better than nothing?

Also it's not just the poor, I've had many friends use uber as a stop gap between jobs. One of my drivers had a masters in Finance - I don't see anything wrong with gig work as long as both sides know what they are signing up for.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#106

Post by jakelazaroff »

ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

> I feel strongly like this law was pushed by people who want Uber to be a full-time job. It’s not. I understand that some people want it to be full-time, but I wish they would stop trying to make Uber something it’s not.

And this is the case… why? I could just as easily say “I understand that some people want Uber to be part-time, but I wish they would stop trying to make it something it’s not.”

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#107

Post by maxehmookau »

barry-cotter wrote: post #92
maxehmookau wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, Jesus didn't give a damn about social justice. Christianity and the need for justice and equality are completely separate. /s

Jesus was the son of God, come to bring the Kingdom of Heaven. He was not an activist. Attempting to elide the difference between the idea of justice and an ideology that’s maybe old enough to vote will not erase that distinction.

Social justice is no more or less of an ideology than religion iself.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#108

Post by truculent »

ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

Your husband is very fortunate; I’ve never met someone who drives for Uber and is not doing it full-time. Wishing it wasn’t that way doesn’t make it so.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#109

Post by Jommi »

esrauch wrote: post #69
ericabiz wrote: post #51

My husband drives for Uber, and I’m glad the proposition passed as it is. He drives the way Uber was originally envisioned. He goes out some nights if there’s a surge, and in the morning on the way to work he points the app toward our stores and grabs a person (pre-pandemic) or a food delivery (today) on his way in. It pays for gas money, car maintenance, and then some. Some months he makes a few hundred dollars. Som…

It's anecdotal but I always chat with my Uber drivers and nearly 100% of them are driving full time. I assume it's a "most rides are driven by a full-timer, most drivers are part timers" situation. I don't really see why we need a third category, it should just be that some drivers are full time and some are not. I don't believe that Uber could sufficiently fulfill even half the rides with only the true part timers s…

I have the complete opposite anecdotal experience.

Your 2nd paragraph is exactly what prop22 added. Now full-time drivers enjoy some benefits.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#110

Post by momokoko »

ericabiz wrote: post #90
momokoko wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he collect unemployment, which he does not pay into, during Covid? What is the max payout for his insurance as we’ll need to cover the rest since he is not covered by workers compensation? I could go on, but the point isn’t to protect him, the point is to protect us from picking up the bill for things he and Uber are not paying into.

I think you’re misreading our situation. We run phone and computer repair shops as our primary business. Uber is his part-time side gig. We do pay into unemployment, as we are both salaried workers of our own business. He did not take unemployment during Covid. Our stores were considered essential, so they stayed open. That is pretty much the point of part-time driving. You have a full-time job or business that pays…

Could you address the insurance and workers compensation issue? Does your husbands auto insurance have a maximum payout? Otherwise we as a society will end up picking up the unpaid medical bills over that amount.

There are many others, but these two are the most egregious.

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