Your Computer Isn't Yours • Hacker News Board

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#291

Post by shard » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

szc wrote: post #153

ur-whale wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For me, Apple products really are designed to protect my personal information. Which unfortunately isn't mutually exclusive with granting full access to your stuff to state-level actors. But I guess there's always a category of people who actually like the idea of big brother.

Sorry, but please can you point to any real evidence that Apple allows state-level actors access? From what I can see it is exactly the opposite. I am not an advocate for big brother.

There is no proof that Apple allows the CCP access to data, however they cannot prevent it: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/02/24/apple-to-move-chi...

Don't forget that Apple is a multinational megacorp, and is user centric only when it suits them. Consider Tim Cook speaking at the conference used by the Chinese government to promote internet regulation, saying that the vision of the conference is one that Apple shares.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#292

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

kimjongtrill wrote: post #262

pdkl95 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry for Gen Z because they're tiny-mobile-device native. And the only usable tiny mobile devices are walled gardens. Without the ability to grow up playing with system level software, combined with the software industry's unwillingness to pass on institutional knowledge to younger generations, I fear we are already on a path towards a civilization that loses a lot of the technological capability we currently en…

10 years ago when I started working I feared the younger generation and their enthusiasm and energy. Then I had to teach a few of them how to ssh and that fear was dissolved. Most of these kids will not cut it in heavy reading/comprehension jobs.

As an "older" coder I get where your hinting at but your view on Zoomers in tech from your high horse seems very narrow and entitled.

I'm sure there are Zoomers out there who can code rings around you(and me).

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#293

Post by flohofwoe » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

eznzt wrote: post #276

zanny wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing said hacker culture spent 15 years buying inflated laptops and desktops from them ultimately for convenience to give them the market presence to do this in the first place. Its the same thing with Windows. People will preach all day that they won't make any personal sacrifices to try to avoid feeding literal cancers that are eating the software industry and are shocked when said all consuming voids take aw…

And what do you expect us to do, install Linux and spend days configuring the touchpad? Computers are a tool we use to do our work. Setting up the computer cannot become a job by itself.

An open computing device doesn't need to be unusable, and a usable computing device doesn't need to be locked up. There's a lot of space to explore between those extremes.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#294

Post by GuB-42 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #247

emptysongglass wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's worse is the number of other posts with the top comments being vociferous defenses of these companies as if they needed these people to defend them or cared one iota for their welfare. It feels like it's Stockholm Syndrome on a mass scale. I worry for Gen Z because they're tiny-mobile-device native. And the only usable tiny mobile devices are walled gardens. They scream outrage when they're not allowed their t…

> I worry for Gen Z because they're tiny-mobile-device native. And the only usable tiny mobile devices are walled gardens. Without the ability to grow up playing with system level software, combined with the software industry's unwillingness to pass on institutional knowledge to younger generations, I fear we are already on a path towards a civilization that loses a lot of the technological capability we currently en…

Gen Z can get real general-purpose computers with a development environment for cheap. The new Raspberry Pi 400 is a modern take on home computers like the C64, but 15 times cheaper. Pi 400 full kit: $100, C64: $595 (1982) / $1576 (inflation adjusted for 2019).

The computers are not just getting cheaper, educative material is easier than ever to find.

Because modern computers are much more complex and do much more than before, you don't do much bare metal programming anymore, but then again, nothing is stopping a kid from buying a microcontroller and playing with it. It cheap and information is plentiful. I would even say that it is easier for Gen Z to play with electronics than it was for millennials.

But that unprecedented availability of computers didn't turn everyone into a nerd. Just because someone has a smartphone doesn't mean he has any interest in computing. When computers were limited and expensive, only those who had some affinity with them had them, now everyone have them, so mechanically, you can't expect the same average level of interest.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#295

Post by jb1991 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

sharedfrog wrote: post #281

jb1991 wrote: post #234

I don't really understand the tone here. Do people really believe there is "evil" motivations in Apple? How about Tesla and its control over your vehicle? Windows also phones home frequently and has advertising built-in. I get that many in the hacker crowd don't like this, so the obvious solution is, don't buy those products. But for everyone else, it's not this big downer of a problem. This is the only time this has…

> People are confusing their own individual preferences [...] with the larger motivations of the masses. No, I don't think we are. We're lamenting the motivations of the masses. Most people want something that 1) looks pretty, and 2) "just works". The advantages of something objectively better (let's assume there's a metric we can agree on) would have to be exponentially greater than the effort to make it work in ord…

It's not that I want to spied or don't care, it's more that it just doesn't overwhelm the decision to use Apple products. I don't care enough about it for it to affect my choices. And the reason for this is: the alternatives. There are none that are genuinely better. There are trade-offs. Can I use my Adobe suite on Linux? Not really. I'm enamored by the relative purity of Linux but I know it would use up a lot more of time in my short life to do certain things compared to a commercial OS, and my time is my greatest commodity.

Is Windows overall a better choice than mac? No, it's just different. Every Apple product I've owned has outlived products from other companies by an average of 2x, so I'm also saving a bundle in costs over the long term. (I used an iPhone for seven years before I upgraded to the iPhone 10, and my old iPhone still works perfectly but just doesn't support the latest OS).

I think the problem is that motivations widely vary and there is nothing wrong with choosing something that "just works" the vast majority of the time.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#296

Post by pydry » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

eznzt wrote: post #276

zanny wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing said hacker culture spent 15 years buying inflated laptops and desktops from them ultimately for convenience to give them the market presence to do this in the first place. Its the same thing with Windows. People will preach all day that they won't make any personal sacrifices to try to avoid feeding literal cancers that are eating the software industry and are shocked when said all consuming voids take aw…

And what do you expect us to do, install Linux and spend days configuring the touchpad? Computers are a tool we use to do our work. Setting up the computer cannot become a job by itself.

I've spent far more of my life trying to getting development environment shit working on a Mac than I ever have getting touch pads working on Ubuntu.

For example, the latest version of Mac OS broke docker - literally today we discovered this.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#297

Post by jacobedawson » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:25 AM UTC

eznzt wrote: post #276

zanny wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing said hacker culture spent 15 years buying inflated laptops and desktops from them ultimately for convenience to give them the market presence to do this in the first place. Its the same thing with Windows. People will preach all day that they won't make any personal sacrifices to try to avoid feeding literal cancers that are eating the software industry and are shocked when said all consuming voids take aw…

And what do you expect us to do, install Linux and spend days configuring the touchpad? Computers are a tool we use to do our work. Setting up the computer cannot become a job by itself.

There's probably a business opportunity in that ;)

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#298

Post by dancemethis » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:26 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #4

sneak wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's explained right there in the text: it's via iCloud Backup, which Apple makes no secrets about: - backing up your iMessages: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207428 - not being end to end encrypted: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 It's listed as being "encrypted in storage" and "encrypted in transit", which is a fancy way of saying "we use encrypted disks and TLS, all of which we have the keys for". Fur…

Ok - so it’s complete bullshit. iMessage is end to end encrypted. There is no back door. The article is lying. On the other hand it’s true that iCloud backups are not encrypted. That’s a major problem. Worse in many ways since all your private documents, tax returns etc, are in there too. But let’s not lie about iMessage not being end to end encrypted. It certainly is. The problem is that the end is then backed up to…

Why are you so quick to defend proprietary software against users?

No way to show from proprietary crap that whatever potentially bogus encryption iMessage clients pretend to have isn't bypassed on the server side. And Apple has historically been hostile to user privacy.

Users are the weakest link on the chain. They should be pre-emptively defended. Not the trillionaire companies. They should have the burden to prove - by providing the source and reproducible builds to their paying customers.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#299

Post by fxtentacle » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:27 AM UTC

turbinerneiter wrote: post #232

fxtentacle wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up Ubuntu was easy enough. But the file manager locks up regularly, switching between multiple windows of the same app with alt+tab doesn't work reliably, and I actually had to Google how to create a new folder. The stock picture viewer is lacking information such as ICC profile and when I installed the recommended Gimp, it was a mess of windows and the save dialog was horrible. I suffer through all of it bec…

So you weren't able to come up with the idea of right-clicking without Google?

Right clicking didn't work. The main menu also didn't offer the option.

You need to open a burger menu in the top right corner. And then the new folder button is purely an icon and it doesn't show a folder.

Re: Your Computer Isn't Yours

#300

Post by sdevonoes » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 11:27 AM UTC

fyfy18 wrote: post #43

nautical wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that, user experience in Linux is and in foreseeable future will be the most flexible of all and hence allows users to make it look exactly the way they like. For comparison I would say Linux is like bootstrap that you can customize to make it look the way you want. iOS is like a paid theme you have bought over Themeforest with near to zero flexibility. If you want a predefined good looking desktop, y…

I switched back (after a Mac stint for 12 years) to Linux a couple of years ago, and although hardware support is much better there are still some very sharp edges you could easily bleed out on if you briefly touch. I have a ThinkPad T470s running Arch Linux (I also tried Fedora and Ubuntu and saw these there too): - Desktop performance is too poor to run at 4K, even though it works fine in Windows. I'm not talking p…

History repeats itself. 10 or 15 years ago the problems I had with Linux were related to Wi-Fi and graphic card drivers. Nowadays these issues are solved, but new ones appear (the ones you mentioned). I'm pretty confident these issues will be solved in the future... but again, new issues will appear and Linux will always be one step behind.