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Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

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Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#61

Post by phire »

_ea1k wrote: post #35
ogre_codes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 supports virtualization. The comment in question was talking about the older DTK CPU. A full VM with x86 emulation is not supported though, and from the sounds of it will never be.

Never seems like a long time. Why would it be impossible to implement x86 emulation with virtualization?

Apple's x86 emulator only implements userspace.

Apple would need to implement all the supervisor mode parts of x86, which massively increases complexity. It's a notably different product.

And it would even be virtualiztion, it's not exposing the real host hardware. No real x86 cpu exists to be exposed. It would just be an emulator pretending to be virtualiztion.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#62

Post by mbreese »

ogre_codes wrote: post #13

This link is a little confusing because the top comment and much of the conversation is talking about the DTK which was based on the much older A12X CPU and not the M1. As far as I can tell, the M1 does have virtualization support, Docker just isn't ported yet. Update: Also, from Apple docs it seems like you won't be able to run emulation and virtualization in the same process. So you can run x86 Mac apps, but it's l…

> run emulation and virtualization in the same process

To me this says that Rosetta doesn’t convert VT-X commands (et al) to their ARM counterparts.

I don’t see an issue here... sure you’d be left without a dedicated VM framework from Apple, but you should be able to run a qemu process that is emulating a Linux VM. That qemu binary could be either x86 or Arm. But instead of using the Mac OS Hypervisor.Framework, you’d be back to using stock qemu that we used to use. It just isn’t packaged up as nicely at the moment. (And who knows how fast it will run).

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#64

Post by ogre_codes »

freetime2 wrote: post #44

I will not be buying one of these first generation M1 devices because of issues like this. But in the long term I actually think it’s going to be a really good thing for the industry if we can get more developers using non-x86 devices and deploying code to non-x86 servers.

> I will not be buying one of these first generation M1 devices because of issues like this.

It is always a bit of a gamble to be on the bleeding edge with your production machine!

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#65

Post by kall »

umvi wrote: post #37
willejs wrote: post #33

Is it going to be interesting to see how new Apple machines running ARM based processors plays out. Writing code, and building docker images locally on ARM and building and running the same code on X86 in production could potentially, in some circumstances cause some issues. If not, it's a bit of a pain to potentially build and publish x86 and ARM images so that people can run them anywhere (Some projects are already…

> building docker images locally on ARM and running it on X86 in production could potentially, in some circumstances cause some issues. Won't it always cause issues? If you build locally you are packaging ARM binaries in zfs which won't run on x86... unless you somehow signal to docker that you want a different arch when building

I assume (but don‘t know) that most workflows build the deployed docker image in some kind of CI service. Is that not true?

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#66

Post by freehunter »

shiado wrote: post #16

I'm actually tempted to get one of the new Macbook Airs. There's something intriguing and fun about navigating the brokenness of a new ecosystem. Does anybody know how Steam handles the new macs?

This is exactly the reason I picked up an iPad Pro earlier this year. I have ADHD that flares up pretty bad when I’m wading through the boring parts of a project and flipping through open windows, the Dock flashing at me, update notifications popping in randomly, and all the complexity that comes with a desktop OS just wore me down. Add in all the fun stuff 2020 has to offer and I just couldn’t take it anymore.

Not that the transition has been seamless, but I’ve only had to fall back to my Macbook once in the past three months. There’s something about shaking up the routine, plus the forced simplicity and single-tasking has majorly helped my focus. I just wish Cloud9 or Codespaces worked better on an iPad...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#67

Post by threeseed »

ogre_codes wrote: post #13

This link is a little confusing because the top comment and much of the conversation is talking about the DTK which was based on the much older A12X CPU and not the M1. As far as I can tell, the M1 does have virtualization support, Docker just isn't ported yet. Update: Also, from Apple docs it seems like you won't be able to run emulation and virtualization in the same process. So you can run x86 Mac apps, but it's l…

Holden Karau has public videos showing her attempts to get ML tools e.g. Dask/Kubernetes running on ARM including heavy use of Docker.

For the last year she has been working at Apple so I've always suspected that she was developing on M1 hardware but with Linux OS.

https://www.youtube.com/c/HoldenKarau/videos

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#69

Post by threeseed »

hammock wrote: post #51
syas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why I got the Pro (also my laptop is from 2013 and I’m desperate). I love and use Docker every day, and know it’s a mess right now, but I’m still excited to jump in head first. Edit: This is my personal laptop fwiw. My work one is still Intel.

What is the difference between the M1 Air and the M1 Pro 13"? From what I can tell, they are basically the same spec except for small differences like slightly bigger battery life, active cooling and touchbar in the Pro. Is that worth $300, for a larger form factor?

400 nits versus 500 nits brightness is another minor difference.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#70

Post by threeseed »

fxtentacle wrote: post #2

If ARM servers take over, then running ARM docker natively on M1 could be helpful ... ... but for the current state where ARM-compatible images make up roughly 1% of Docker Hub, I don't even see the point of wanting to use Docker on M1.

ARM servers will take over you just probably won't know it.

AWS is in the process of moving all of their managed services e.g. RDS, ElasticCache over to their Graviton platform.

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