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Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#11

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

felipellrocha wrote: post #6
storkhill wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think Apple's in the right here. Every developer agrees to the App Store rules before releasing their applications. Apple created guidelines for their developers and they're simply taking advantage of that in court. Not saying I agree with it, but it doesn't go without reason.

Same. I don’t like Apple’s overreach in the industry, over all, but their apple store service is great, and they should be paid for it. Don’t wanna pay? Don’t go to the store.

Don’t wanna use Standard Oil, don’t use oil. See how that works?

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#12

Post by warent »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
mdorazio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the core of the argument here. Epic is arguing that Apple's terms themselves (taking a cut of the revenue that's a direct result of Epic's team's efforts with zero options to do anything else) are not fair and should be unenforceable given its market position. Basically, breach of contract is only a valid legal basis when the contract itself is deemed legally acceptable. Ex. you can't force someone…

> Where you come down on this issue should really be based on whether you think a marketplace cut of revenue with extremely onerous conditions that prevent even minor bypasses should be legal or not when distribution on said marketplace constitutes 50% of the consumer market in the sector This is a court case. Not a legislative session. Where you come down on it should be based on the law. I believe the law should be…

Courts can and do make new laws and undo laws all the time. Whether or not they should is another matter entirely, but it is well within the court's power to reinterpret laws quite liberally.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#13

Post by thehappypm »

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic wins this one -- not only did they agree to the contract, the contract isn't particularly outrageous, in my mind. Compare it to something like a movie theater. The movie theater gets almost no box-office revenue. Apple lets you keep most of it.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#14

Post by pixl97 »

felipellrocha wrote: post #6
storkhill wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think Apple's in the right here. Every developer agrees to the App Store rules before releasing their applications. Apple created guidelines for their developers and they're simply taking advantage of that in court. Not saying I agree with it, but it doesn't go without reason.

Same. I don’t like Apple’s overreach in the industry, over all, but their apple store service is great, and they should be paid for it. Don’t wanna pay? Don’t go to the store.

>Don’t wanna pay? Don’t go to the store.

Is this supposed to be an ironic comment? Because if it is not, I'm concerned for your knowledge about the situation.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#15

Post by rndgermandude »

jaywalk wrote: post #3

While I admire the creativity of Apple's legal team to attempt to frame this as theft, I'm glad it was dismissed outright because it's beyond absurd.

Right. Theft would require Apple had something (like money) already in their possession and Epic took it from them. This isn't what happened here regardless of the stipulations in the contracts between those two parties.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#16

Post by stale2002 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
mdorazio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the core of the argument here. Epic is arguing that Apple's terms themselves (taking a cut of the revenue that's a direct result of Epic's team's efforts with zero options to do anything else) are not fair and should be unenforceable given its market position. Basically, breach of contract is only a valid legal basis when the contract itself is deemed legally acceptable. Ex. you can't force someone…

> Where you come down on this issue should really be based on whether you think a marketplace cut of revenue with extremely onerous conditions that prevent even minor bypasses should be legal or not when distribution on said marketplace constitutes 50% of the consumer market in the sector This is a court case. Not a legislative session. Where you come down on it should be based on the law. I believe the law should be…

> Where you come down on it should be based on the law.

The comment that you responded to included facts that would support the idea that Apple's behavior is against the current law.

When they said that " said marketplace constitutes 50% of the consumer market"

This is a reason as for why Apple is breaking the law. It is an argument that Apple has significant market power, and is engaging in anti-competitive actions, which is illegal.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#17

Post by intricatedetail »

thehappypm wrote: post #13

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic…

You said you side with Apple, but why? Better analogy is that Apple is a country with a single party, no elections, that dictates who can make money and how much tax they pay. These ecosystems need regulation to enable multiple stores and open APIs.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#18

Post by cassteri »

intricatedetail wrote: post #17
thehappypm wrote: post #13

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic…

You said you side with Apple, but why? Better analogy is that Apple is a country with a single party, no elections, that dictates who can make money and how much tax they pay. These ecosystems need regulation to enable multiple stores and open APIs.

Except Apple isn’t a country, it’s a company, so this analogy is useless.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#19

Post by Animats »

thehappypm wrote: post #13

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic…

That argument is like the railroad antitrust cases of a century ago. "The New York Central Railroad is giving shippers a marketplace of users with large freight terinals, fast locomotives, and railroad sidings already connected. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair."

(If you think Comcast is bad, read up on the history of railroad monopolies.)

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#20

Post by intricatedetail »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
mdorazio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the core of the argument here. Epic is arguing that Apple's terms themselves (taking a cut of the revenue that's a direct result of Epic's team's efforts with zero options to do anything else) are not fair and should be unenforceable given its market position. Basically, breach of contract is only a valid legal basis when the contract itself is deemed legally acceptable. Ex. you can't force someone…

> Where you come down on this issue should really be based on whether you think a marketplace cut of revenue with extremely onerous conditions that prevent even minor bypasses should be legal or not when distribution on said marketplace constitutes 50% of the consumer market in the sector This is a court case. Not a legislative session. Where you come down on it should be based on the law. I believe the law should be…

Apple has essentially unlimited resources to perverse the law and that's something that needs to be stopped, whether through tighter legislation or through courts making interpretation of the law in favour of consumers. We shouldn't be supporting a company trying to exploit loopholes to their advantage.
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