It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#141

Post by greggyb » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

I only get one coin out of this article, and it's got two sides:

1. Infinity is really, really big.

2. 0 is really, really small.

Infinite clean energy with no cost? Nonexistent transaction costs (economics meaning)? Yeah, this is probably a very mild description of what the world might look like with those constraints removed.

To me, this is the economic equivalent of a think-piece on what the world would be like if gravity and magnetism disappeared as forces. It may be interesting, and there is likely value in such counterfactual thinking. But it's not something we need to plan for or a goal to aspire to. It's a thought experiment.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#142

Post by syshum » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

_28jh wrote: post #132

I've seen this article reach the front page many times and I laugh every single time. There's too many golden lines. > First communication became digitized and free to everyone. Then, when clean energy became free, things started to move quickly. > Transportation dropped dramatically in price. It made no sense for us to own cars anymore, because we could call a driverless vehicle or a flying car for longer journeys w…

>>I can't tell if it's written by a normal person, some buzzword-spouting AI,

I hope the latter, because I can not image a normal person viewing any of those things as good...

This view of the future right out of a dystopian horror

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#143

Post by xapata » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #118

What the author describes is humans living in captivity. There is a cadre of people who argue, "really? you wouldn't survive a day outside this so-called captivity, tough guy" and then go on to justify how their various compromises are somehow moral. To me that whole line of argument is just indoors cats lecturing outdoors cats about how to manage the shame of dependency, which outdoors cats just don't have. If we do…

> living in captivity

That's a big leap, and you've given no explanation for it. Perhaps we have different understandings of what captivity means, so it'd be helpful if you define your terms. To me, captivity is a location (or metaphorical location, so a situation) you want to leave, but can't. In the article, the narrator does not indicate a desire to leave, or any difficulty doing so if they wished. The bit about being recorded hints at it, but we'd have to assume there are no other cities in the world, or some other unstated bit about a police state.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#144

Post by samirillian » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

Ah yes the myth of the laplacean demon where apps allow us to know the location and fair price of every commodity and service in the market; a fantasy only sustainable if you live in Utrecht or some other core city running on the labor of the economic periphery.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#145

Post by bccdee » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #118

What the author describes is humans living in captivity. There is a cadre of people who argue, "really? you wouldn't survive a day outside this so-called captivity, tough guy" and then go on to justify how their various compromises are somehow moral. To me that whole line of argument is just indoors cats lecturing outdoors cats about how to manage the shame of dependency, which outdoors cats just don't have. If we do…

I have plenty of problems with this article, but I think it's a bit odd to consider dependency upon the institutions of

- grocery stores

- transportation

- electricity

- various repair-people such as electricians and plumbers

- an employer

- a well-regulated economy

as "being a independent outdoor cat," but then suddenly once you're renting your clothes instead of buying them that's a bridge too far, and you're "captive."

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#146

Post by helen___keller » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

Ironically, despite how this article is both patently fictional and fairly dystopian, several of the premises actually do apply to me and many others: I own no house, no car, no appliances.

But no, rent isn't free, I pay through the nose to live in a location where it's possible to rely on transit (in non pandemic times, anyways). And I do hard work to pay that rent, I'm not sure what business meetings I could illegally sublet out my tiny living room to fetch over $3000 per month.

I do get things delivered, quite often (groceries weekly and sometimes restaurant meals). It's absurdly expensive and once the pandemic is over I plan to cut the deliveries out of my life as much as I can (I cancelled prime in January and resubscribed in March, oops!)

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#147

Post by Gnarl » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

_28jh wrote: post #132

I've seen this article reach the front page many times and I laugh every single time. There's too many golden lines. > First communication became digitized and free to everyone. Then, when clean energy became free, things started to move quickly. > Transportation dropped dramatically in price. It made no sense for us to own cars anymore, because we could call a driverless vehicle or a flying car for longer journeys w…

Unfortunately, it is a real person. A Danish politician: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Auken

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#148

Post by game_the0ry » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

This is a part of World Economic Forum marketing the concept of "The Great Reset"[1]. The founder of WEF has wrote a book about this and there is even a podcast. Basically, they are mentally preparing policy makers and their citizen(-slaves) for much a much lower quality of living, with the blame on covid (not the bad policy the WEF attendees have pushed in their respective countries...how convenient).

Case in point - the WEF tweeted a (now deleted) video about 8 predictions for 2030. The first is: "You will own nothing. And you'll be happy"[1]. My questions - who does the "owning" and does this apply to the "elites" that attend Davos?

I am not one for conspiracy theories, but this is not a conspiracy anymore. The "elites" don't even hide their intentions.

[1]https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

[2]https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jio3r3/youll_ow...

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#149

Post by indymike » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

_28jh wrote: post #132

I've seen this article reach the front page many times and I laugh every single time. There's too many golden lines. > First communication became digitized and free to everyone. Then, when clean energy became free, things started to move quickly. > Transportation dropped dramatically in price. It made no sense for us to own cars anymore, because we could call a driverless vehicle or a flying car for longer journeys w…

What is interesting is that how much of the economy would have to lose most or all revenue for this model to work. Shrinking GDP is very hard to pull off.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#150

Post by clairity » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #117

vulcan01 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if everyone has a baseline income, nobody does I believe the argument for UBI is based on economic utility: $1000 a month is worth more to a poor person than a rich person.

I think the counterargument is that if everyone suddenly has $1000/month more, the market will very quickly eat it all, as prices readjust to consume the extra disposable income. I want UBI to work. But I haven't heard of a good strategy to mitigate what I just described.

a complementary argument is that we can always find things for people to do for money. we all have unfulfilled wishlists, at least 330M in the US alone. from eggshell coat clasps to urban greenspace to maneuverable model rocketry to DDR competitions to mobile surgical centers to childcare. the list is literally endless.

what we don't generally have is an optimal dispersion of capital (and power) to fulfill many of those wishes. concentration of capital and power also concentrates labor allocation and decision-making (something capitalism in ideal form opposes), so instead of drawing from the ingenuity of hundreds of millions, we're trending toward that of hundreds of thousands. it doesn't matter how clever those hundreds of thousands are, they'll never out-imagine hundreds of millions (or billions worldwide).

ubi is predicated on the idea that lots of people will have nothing to do soon, but that's only effectuated in a dystopian world where capital and power are extremely concentrated. rather than altruism, ubi is rather a critical step toward fascist corporatism, acting to stave off potential opposition by trickling down a tiny bone to the masses. the populace assuming mass joblessness are falling into the rhetorical trap of the subjugating corporatists, not accessing a benevolent key to economic and social freedom.