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It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

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121–130 of 267 posts

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#121
post #71
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what. In Tallinn, Estonia public transport is free for city residents.

It's not free. You pay it with your taxes.

We also pay for public transit with our taxes in many states/cities in the United States, but they still charge riders. Taxation is implicit in public transit, I'm not aware of a single viable public transit model that doesn't rely on taxpayer money.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#122
post #55

Personally, I think a future where AI can do most jobs is frightening. It will be run by a group of relatively few elites that are involved in power struggles for control of the AI and the rest of us that do stuff like pick fruit (assuming it's cheaper than having an AI do it) and serve as cannon fodder in the AI armies. I find people who believe that it will lead to some kind of Utopia horribly naive and they have n…

We went through a comparable transition from most people working in agriculture and farming to that being automated away and people doing stuff that hadn't been much worried about before. Given human nature hasn't changed I imagine it will be similar.

That is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it would be the industrialization of western society led to 100 years of exploitation of non-industrial peoples and societies through colonialism and imperialism. With it came global power struggles between industrialized nations for control of resources and technology (WW1, WW2, Cold War, etc.) on a scale the world had never seen.

If you live in the USA and Europe, you are the recipient of generations of global technological dominance. It's hard to understand the possibility of being on the other side of that.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#123
My first thought - who owns your living quarters, the machines which show up, the clothes, etc? These are the people who are really living well as the rest of the ruled are indebted to them forever.

IF the answer is government, please just stop. A central ruling class? This has always ended badly. If the answer is private enterprise, ask why accept the role you have chosen and instead work to accumulate the goods you can provide as services. Then you have freedom - from rents, from control, and the removal of spontaneity.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#124
Reminds me of Donald Fagen's I.G.Y., right as the song begins to take a creepy AI turn:

"""

A just machine to make big decisions

Programmed by fellas with compassion and vision

We'll be clean when their work is done

We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young

"""

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#125
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My going rule of thumb is that any "good" fictive dystopia always starts off as being someone else's utopia, only it becomes compulsory. This in turn leads to any deficiencies or problems in the utopia needing to be papered over, ignored, and so forth because it is compulsory. This causes yet more distortions and away we go. It's like all of those breathless journo articles about insect protein: they sound fine until…

I like the Brave New World approach to distopia. It's kind of hard to argue with the world as presented because the people in it are happy/content, it seems sustainable, safe, etc. Yet, as a present-day reader with a present-day moral lens, it seems horrific and unjust.

"Man does not desire happiness. Only the Englishman does." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#126

Personally, I think a future where AI can do most jobs is frightening. It will be run by a group of relatively few elites that are involved in power struggles for control of the AI and the rest of us that do stuff like pick fruit (assuming it's cheaper than having an AI do it) and serve as cannon fodder in the AI armies. I find people who believe that it will lead to some kind of Utopia horribly naive and they have n…

(I'm using "you" not to mean "you personally", but both uto/dystopian AI futurists.)

You have used technology right?

You know it is all mostly shit that breaks down, crashes, and gets replaced and thrown out on an 18 month cycle?

What I think lots of people get wrong is forgetting just how crappy consumer tech is, and industrial/military isn't far behind. We may get AI working well in 5-25 years, but I doubt deployments will be any less buggy.

Repairing & provisioning the billions of bots will be most of the "tech" jobs. Think like the IT dept at your company that hands out new laptops, times a million.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#127
post #77
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is critical. As long as we operate in a highly competitive climate, private ownership and rights associated with it become a necessity. Ownership not only legally guarantees your rights but denies others rights (your competition). Even with a well optimized sharing economy inside a highly competitive environment, you'll look for ways to break the optimization process favorable to yourself. If everything schedule…

I feel that "post scarcity" requires some definition. In the west very few people go hungry and the vast majority of people have a mobile phone - something that was an expensive status item just a couple of decades ago. It feels like if we made everything "post scarcity" by today's standard, we would have a load more things that people would be striving to acquire. On the other hand maybe post scarcity is what some b…

it seems possible that food, water, shelter, and even healthcare could be provided to everyone in the near future, but positional goods will always exist. it will never be possible for everyone to live in a manhattan penthouse, be treated by the best doctors, etc., and people will still compete for access to these things.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#128

"I know that, somewhere, everything I do, think and dream of is recorded. I just hope that nobody will use it against me." -- This gave me a feeling that I am unable to put into words.

Humanity does not yet have the wisdom to handle having that much power over everyone. We may never.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#129
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We went through a comparable transition from most people working in agriculture and farming to that being automated away and people doing stuff that hadn't been much worried about before. Given human nature hasn't changed I imagine it will be similar.

And then again during the industrial revolution and consequent automation, where the work previously done by 10 people is now done by 1. It's cyclical, and while I will concede that people lose their jobs because of automation, zooming out to the overall jobs market (and figures, which probably don't tell the whole story) things haven't really changed much. On an individual level though, people lose their jobs and li…

UBI won't bring magical satisfaction in America (even with promised "better housing") because everyone sees themself as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire (Steinbeck quote) entitled to more and more. It will simply never be enough.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#130
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meritocracy set out from birth, no? Are not all people in that book test tube children with specific selected genomes? I fail to see how creating a class of genetic garbage men, relegated to working with trash for their entire lives is "meritocratic," since advocates of the meritocracy concept generally rely on the system's alleged mobility.

Reminder that "meritocracy" came to prominence in a satirical essay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy Unfortunately a bunch of folks read that and thought it was a great idea.

Pretty sure people see the first 5 letters, and then decide since they've earned everything in life, its a great idea.
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