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It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

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Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#92
> clean energy became free

A substantial part of the article rests on this premise, and it ain't gonna happen, because if it did, someone would use it all in order to get ahead of everyone else. Sorry abt that, welcome back with a new suggestion (some kind of quota system maybe).

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's a scam. "You will own nothing and be happy". That is BS of the highest order. There will always be someone who owns and controls everything. It's just not going to be you. You will own nothing, you will be worthless. You won't even be able to have a girlfriend/boyfriend or friends for that matter; real human relationships are reserved for the elites. You will get as many VR friends as you want though.…

I can't believe that people are downvoting this without making any arguments to refute it; they're thinking emotionally, looking at things through rose-colored lenses. Sometimes it seems like everyone is on drugs. People's brains are turning into swiss cheese. Trying to censor information is just not going to work. Controlling the media is not going to help beyond a certain point. People know what's going on and they…

> The current elites don't have the ability to suppress billions of people who were raised on freedom as the central principle of their existence.

That sounds like a problem that could be solved through military automation. (!)

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#94
post #12

I don't understand this. As said in other comments, I believe most people wouldn't want most of the things the author describes. If I want to cook at home and have to order everything, I assume it won't just be there in 5 minutes. And then what? If everything is shared does someone come pick it up when someone else needs it? Do I take it somewhere? Also, are people delivering these things? Or robots? And how can this…

It seems to be based on the assumption that the only cost involved is electricity and ignores the cost of materials. Even if everything is recycled you end up paying for entropy somewhere. This society would end up in a death spiral.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? That paragraph is already close to reality in some places in Europe, where public transport is ticket-less and free and the government provides housing and food at no cost to those who need it. Expand on that and you're at what the author is describing. I personally wouldn't bet money on "this will never happen", would you?

I am in Europe and I do not see anything close to what the author is describing. Nothing is really at no cost. It is paid for with tax money or directly. The author is not specifying "for those who could not otherwise afford it", but describing it as at no cost for everyone. Most universities cost money to enrole and attend. Does your baker give out buns at no cost? Is the grocery store giving away all the food at no…

> Nothing is really at no cost. It is paid for with tax money or directly. > The author is not specifying "for those who could not otherwise afford it", but describing it as at no cost for everyone.

The author never specified whether or how things are paid for, but for me personally I am assuming tax money. He also leaves open whether luxury goods/foods are still paid for.

> Show me that country or even that city please. Show me the social experiment, that tries to get people to work without pay, as long as they have access to "all the things we need in our daily lives". As far as I know, it has never been done.

Why are you asking me to show you something I never claimed existed?

I claimed there's places with social security (housing, food) and free public transport (Luxembourg for instance).

> So that's why I call it pure fiction.

Anything that doesn't exist yet is fiction.

It seems that you both misunderstood the article and my comment, then tried to maneuver me into a position where I would defend something nobody ever claimed.

To be fair, the author leaves a lot of things unexplained, so one's imagination is going to fill in the gaps.

Personally I imagined a city where basic necessities are provided for free, but where you have to pay for anything that is a cut above. Greatly expanded social security essentially.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#96
post #51

>Why keep a pasta-maker and a crepe cooker crammed into our cupboards? We can just order them when we need them. The main point of owning things is that you get to use them when you want to use them. People keep those things in cupboards because when they decide on a whim to make pasta they do just that. The same goes for all the rest - having cars, houses and so on. Unless there's some kind of Philip K Dick-style ma…

I think this essay lost a lot of appeal with the China virus pandemic (especialy start of it in spring). This "own nothing, order everything" lifestyle is very fragile.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#97

> It might seem odd to you, but it makes perfect sense for us in this city. Everything you considered a product, has now become a service. We have access to transportation, accommodation, food and all the things we need in our daily lives. One by one all these things became free, so it ended up not making sense for us to own much. All that becoming "free" (here meaning "at no cost") will never happen in a capitalisti…

What do you mean? That paragraph is already close to reality in some places in Europe, where public transport is ticket-less and free and the government provides housing and food at no cost to those who need it. Expand on that and you're at what the author is describing. I personally wouldn't bet money on "this will never happen", would you?

> What do you mean? That paragraph is already close to reality in some places in Europe, where public transport is ticket-less and free and the government provides housing and food at no cost to those who need it.

Who needs free housing?

Who gets to decide who needs free housing? Need I remind you that this often comes down to "the poorest" and "some of the richest"? Here in Sweden the latter category in the guise of representatives for labour unions, the leadership of public organisations like the police and similarly positioned people as well as a number of politicians (Margot Wallström being a good example here) have been implicated many times in real estate deals where they get to live for free or close to free in high-value city-central property owned and paid by the unions or the state.

Also, who decides who gets to live where? Who gets to live in those fine old houses facing the park, who gets to live in the dilapidated tenement blocks? What is the deciding factor? Why?

Who pays for those buses and trams?

Who pays for those houses?

In those places in Europe you mention (and where I live) the answer is that local and state taxes pay for those things, social services gets to decide who is eligible for free housing, the waiting lines for other rental properties are extensive (up to 25 years for some locations) while those eligible for free housing are required by law to be provided with such within a few months. This leads to social tension where people see their children being unable to get their own apartment because all available and affordable places are being handed out for free to "eligible" people, paid for by those same parents and children. The "free" public transport is anything but free, it still needs a large amount of funding which often comes out of local taxes, parking fees and permit fees, "congestion taxes" and more of such. Now imagine a situation where everybody decided from one day to the next to forego on their own mode of transport and starts using the "free" public transport and see what happens. What would happen is a severe drop in funding for the "free" public transport combined with a severe overloading of the buses and trams. The disappearance of car-related taxes would necessitate an increase in other taxes to be able to fund that "free" public transport. For this funding to be stable the taxes would need to be of the sort which can not be avoided, anything from property taxes (which would make owning a house more expensive and relegate this to the richer part of society), public utility taxes, something like the Poll Tax which was tried under the Thatcher government, etc. Since these tax raises would end up breaking the budget for "the poorest" there would be a need for another social servant who gets to decide which people are eligible for tax breaks, raising the taxes for the remaining tax payers.

I guess the picture is getting clear now, "free" services generally are anything but free, they just end up being paid in a different way.

Now turn the thing around and take some of its assumptions as being close to the truth. Nuclear energy, either in the form of fission or fusion, finally gets to live up to the promise of being close to free. There will still be transport costs - where I live I pay more for getting electricity to my home than for the electricity itself, this due to the network being a natural monopoly while I can shop around (on a rigged market, but still) for electricity sellers - but the price should go down markedly. Assuming that my purchasing power remains the same or goes up this means that I now have money left over. What do you think those "car" services will end up costing compared to owning an old but serviceable electric vehicle? Remember that one of the advantages of electric propulsion is its simplicity and with that its longevity (apart from the batteries, that is). If power were to be close to free I would get myself an old electric clunker and use that, especially given that I live in the countryside.

...or does this Utopia not hold with people living outside of cities? Maybe only "important" people are allowed to live outside of the panopticon?

I rebuilt and extended my own house and will probably build some for my children as well using locally sourced (as in taken from my own forest) wood as a building material plus whatever else I need, also locally sourced. I'm in the process of putting solar panels on the barn I built last year, this should make us a net electricity producer in summer. I have yet to decide what to do with the excess electricity, either deliver it to the 'net (which might not be willing to take it), use it it a different way or store it as heat in an insulated underground water basin from where it can be extracted as heat using a heat pump. Would I be allowed to opt out of the state-provided housing and consumption facilities in this Utopia? Would my children be allowed to live in the countryside if wanted to, maybe after having lived in or in proximity to a city for a few years like I did?

No, this is not a vision of the future. It is the preface to yet another dystopic novel where the thing which was supposed to make everybody happy ended up in yet another brave new world. In this vision people are supposed to be happy consumers, consuming their way through life. They'll probably end up as fertiliser for the crops eaten by the next generation, she just did not get around to writing that part yet.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#98
Yet another communist utopia idea...

As usual they're missing: - Who does all that work, and why? Someone must be incentivised to clear that living room between his lounging and the business meetings. - Who decides what stuff you get to use? Oh there's no shopping huh. Great. Everything you rent is just perfect for you? Well who makes sure of that? The AI? So your will is what? A calculation? - The fallacious idea of "Privacy is not a necessary cause I'm not doing anything wrong" except that everyone is, all the time. No system of rules has ever had enough gray areas, and most of the victims of invaded privacy are normal people not doing anything extreme.

I realise this is an article meant as a talking point start. I just find this style of typical communist/rousseau utopia very tiresome. It's so incredibly dehumanised and boring.

Sorry for the rant.

Re: It's 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better (2016)

#100
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We went through a comparable transition from most people working in agriculture and farming to that being automated away and people doing stuff that hadn't been much worried about before. Given human nature hasn't changed I imagine it will be similar.

And then again during the industrial revolution and consequent automation, where the work previously done by 10 people is now done by 1. It's cyclical, and while I will concede that people lose their jobs because of automation, zooming out to the overall jobs market (and figures, which probably don't tell the whole story) things haven't really changed much. On an individual level though, people lose their jobs and li…

>if everyone has a baseline income, nobody does

I think you are assuming an auction like situation for stuff like limited housing but it doesn't have to be like that. You can build more.

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