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Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

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Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#831
I see a lot of people debating the finer details of benchmarks and trying to argue whether or not Intel or AMD are still ahead.

But consider:

1. Apple just introduced their “starter” chip for everyday consumers. They would not WANT that chip to smoke their top-end Intel Macs, as it would cannibalize margins until the more powerful chips are ready.

2. This is a “two year transition,” with a team that has been shipping a meaningfully better chip every 12 months for about a decade.

From those two observations, I would expect that we’ll see an M1x or M2 chip in the next 12 months which nudges the 16”MBP to 20% or so better than what we’re seeing today, and 12 months after that the transition is completed with the introduction of the M3 series, where there’s an M3, M3x, and M3z for the low, mid, and max performance machines.

And when that happens, I expect the max-performance M3z is going to smoke anything else on the market.

This is not the first time Apple has had a “five-year lead” on the industry, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes Intel and AMD some time to catch up.

And frankly we should all be thrilled about that, because more competition and innovation is just going to accelerate our entire field. I can’t wait to see all the new stuff this will power over the next decade :)

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#832
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s an MVP desktop arm chip. M2, M3... that is when I think we will see stellar performance against things like Ryzen.

Yes. I thought I was dismissive [1] with the new MacBook especially with regards to pricing. ( Mostly because of BOM Cost and Margins are price gouging, even by Apple's standards ) Now things are settled a bit I thought may be it isn't as bad as I thought . Had the MacBook Air Priced any lower, it would have seriously hurt their sales of 16" MBP. Once MacBook Pro transition to ARM, with a rumoured of Mini-LED Screen…

> May be only then Apple could afford to offer a MacBook 12" at $799. And educational price at $699. Although I am not sure if that is enough, Chrome Book in many classes are going at $299. Apple doesn't have to compete dollar to dollar in pricing, but 2X difference is going to be a hard battle to fight. But at least it would allow Apple to win key areas in Education market where TCO and Cost are not as stringent.

Apple is already doing quite well in the low-end education market with the base model iPad. These are competitive with Chromebooks on price. They also do a better job of replacing paper with Notability or GoodNotes and open up project opportunities with the video camera. Most kids seem to be fine with the on-screen keyboard, but that part is not ideal without an external keyboard/keyboard case.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#833
Forgive my ignorance, but is it possible that the various decades of legacy code which hold up the x64 instruction set were simply bogging it down.

I just ordered the new silicon MacBook Pro and I fully expect to record a full album on it using Logic X. As presumably Apple rewrote it from the ground up for the silicone, I expect to be absolutely blown away.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK... but let's say it's 95% there, even. How much power does an M1 draw compared to a 5950X? It's not even funny. And the M1 is running at a lower clock.

Plus, 5950X costs 799$ for the chip alone. (cooler no included)

It's also 4x the big cores and with way way way more L3 cache & I/O.

Almost like they are completely different CPUs with completely different design goals...

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torvalds ripped it apart nearly a decade ago. It's a useless benchmark, what I want to see is things like time to compile a bunch of different software, things that take long enough for the processor/cooling to reach thermal equilibrium etc. I.e. stuff that more closely matches the real world

He ripped apart a very different benchmark for what it was worth, that was GB3 at the time I believe. 5 was a rewrite to make it cross platform-equal. In real world use it actually is far more relevant than thermally limited benchmarks. It just measures max peak burst performance...which is important because 90% of all users use their computer to do only bursty tasks rather than long term processing. See exporting a…

I believe this is the discussion OP is talking about: https://yarchive.net/comp/linux/benchmarks.html

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#836

This really flips the argument that Mac hardware is overpriced and underpowered on its head. Now Apple computers are a premium product from a performance perspective, as well.

Shouldn't we wait for non synthetic benchmarks to be performed by third parties running real applications? We could even compare some cross platform apps across both OS and cpu and see how the total package performs.

Judging by upward trajectory of their processors’ performance (https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/perf-trajectory.png) and their dominance in mobile, it seems like only a matter of time.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#837

Dell Inc. XPS 15 9575 vs MacBookAir10,1 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/4654605?baselin... Opinion: Pretty and impressive story

A better comparison would be the new XPS 13 which beats it at single core but only has 4 cores to MacBookAir10's 8 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/4309589?baselin...

The M1 is a 4+4 big.little core configuration. It only has 4 fast cores, not 8. In a multi-threaded workload those little cores will still help, sure, but not nearly as much.

Hence why in that multi-core result the 4c Intel is way closer to the 8c M1 than it "should" be.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#838
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

won't emulation catch up in those timeframes ? still, 3+ yrs which is a long time...

Three years isn't that long for CPU performance gains anymore, but even if it was, it isn't the emulation that gets faster, it's the hardware. Contemporary ARM machines emulating x64 would still be slower than contemporary x64 machines natively executing x64. You're also going to be in a bind if Apple decides they don't care about the long tail and stops supporting emulation before all of your plugins have been conve…

There is no emulation per se, there is a one time AOT translation of Intel to Arm. Then that native code just runs. So no emulator is running on the cpu while the app is.

There is an exception for apps with JIT and those will perform poorly (think Chrome and every Electron app).

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#839
If you still own any Intel stock it is probably good time to dump it. Not only can't they compete with AMD, Apple now started running circles around them all.

I wonder what the world is going to be like when companies own entire stack including all hardware (even things like cameras and displays) and applications (including app stores).

There is going to be no competition as any new player would have to first join an existing stack that keeps tight grip and ensures competition is killed off before gaining momentum.

So, basically, dystopian future with whole world divided into company territories.

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