So according to this, high-potential women are receiving a pay premium. But I thought the BLS listed tech jobs as one of the few industries that does have an actual wage gap favoring men?
Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
51–60 of 198 posts
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#52Personal experience. Got hired into a company that did everything possible to avoid hiring straight white men. Everything was completely dominated by not offending anyone over anything. Unless you were the aforementioned group. Turns out there simply isn’t a lot of the right race/gender/sex. I’m sure that’ll be different as time progresses, but for now there is clearly some catching up to do. So it was all jr develop…
So what you're saying is that.. I am responsible for my happiness, and that other people are not to blame for the choices I made in regards to my behavior and life, especially straight white men?
Wow, that's a hard cookie to swallow.
(for the ones who read this far, what I wrote is sarcastic).
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#53The only problem with blind selection, is that, sooner or later, the race/gender/sexual orientation/religion/fitness/attractiveness/age (I'm an old fart, so I can tell you a thing or two about ageism in tech) becomes apparent. I have heard story after story from peers (around my age), about passing numerous rounds of phone and test interviews, only to see the interviewer's face fall, as soon as they walk in the door.…
Happened to me I aced everything and when the interview walked into the room I saw it on their face (too old). Thankfully that only happened once and the company wen under at some point thereafter so good thing I didn't get hired.
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#54Key point of the abstract: Women: +9 to +10% chance of callback relative to men Black, Hispanic, and Asian: -8 to -13% chance of callback relative to White people. Anyway, kudos (I guess?) to the researchers for choosing the absolutely most fashionable subject they could possibly study in this day and age.
"Fashionable"? Being so dismissive of the push for racial equality is deeply arrogant and small minded.
being oppressed and triggered by gender and race equality is fashionable on hackernews.
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#55There's a fascinating study on orchestra auditions, where it was found that performing blind auditions (where the interviewee's identity is hidden to the interviewer) led to more equitable gender representation: https://gap.hks.harvard.edu/orchestrating-impartiality-impac... IMHO, if the tech industry wants to live up to its narrative of meritocracy, this is one obvious improvement over existing processes. No, it won…
> where candidates of underrepresented groups are dissuaded by a lack of pre-existing representation
I don't understand this persepective from candidates. The job market must be really good if they can use this as a metric for pursuing a job opportunity. I was the only person from my country when I joined my current employer. It never even crossed my mind that it could be an issue.
There was also a post on HN a few months ago that said asking minorities to attend things like recruiting fairs in order to show the diversity of the employer was unfair.
It's a chicken and egg situation for employers.
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#56Key point of the abstract: Women: +9 to +10% chance of callback relative to men Black, Hispanic, and Asian: -8 to -13% chance of callback relative to White people. Anyway, kudos (I guess?) to the researchers for choosing the absolutely most fashionable subject they could possibly study in this day and age.
Would be interesting to separate Asian applicants into their own group.
They do in their model. Being Asian carries with it the worst relative odds of being hired, though it is not responsible for the overall negative non-white male coefficient (Black and Hispanic applicants also have negative coefficients in the logit)
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#57There's a fascinating study on orchestra auditions, where it was found that performing blind auditions (where the interviewee's identity is hidden to the interviewer) led to more equitable gender representation: https://gap.hks.harvard.edu/orchestrating-impartiality-impac... IMHO, if the tech industry wants to live up to its narrative of meritocracy, this is one obvious improvement over existing processes. No, it won…
To believe that blind applications would help increase female representation presupposes that they're being discriminated against right now, when TFA shows that women are getting preferential callbacks. That completely jives with my experience: most female candidates are highly, highly sought-after, and are quickly hired by top tech companies (leaving smaller companies looking bad in the process, despire their equal…
> most female candidates are highly, highly sought-after, and are quickly hired by top tech companies
Let's say we believe that women are on average equally as capable of men, and we know there are maybe 10-20% as many women in the industry.
Are those 10-20% women roughly as good as the average man, or are they roughly as good as the top 10-20% of men? Have they had the same experience as average men, or have they fought through and survived discriminatory barriers?
Even if we suppose the answer is somewhere in-between, it wouldn't be surprising that women are highly sought-after. Because with these assumptions, the women in the industry are generally likely to be better on average.
Maybe we don't observe discrimination against women in this specific context* (post-application and pre-salary negotiation), but that doesn't mean it isn't occurring elsewhere.
*The summary data includes non-technical hires at tech companies
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
To believe that blind applications would help increase female representation presupposes that they're being discriminated against right now, when TFA shows that women are getting preferential callbacks. That completely jives with my experience: most female candidates are highly, highly sought-after, and are quickly hired by top tech companies (leaving smaller companies looking bad in the process, despire their equal…
It seems to me that if you choose something that is completely equitable in who is able to participate, then the rest of it sounds like manufacturing dissent by companies or corporations that want a "leg up" on the competition in the D&I category, which is all the rage these days in terms of marketing. Maybe there are other reasons women don't want to enter these fields, but prefer to wholly dominate others, and mayb…
I agree.
There has been research on demographics pertaining to college majors and their career opportunities in the context of why some demographics make less money than others after graduating with a 4 year degree. One of the main factors that came up in the interviews was, like you said, the lower earning demographics wanted to have a bigger community impact, but that those jobs simply paid less money (like social workers).
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#59The only problem with blind selection, is that, sooner or later, the race/gender/sexual orientation/religion/fitness/attractiveness/age (I'm an old fart, so I can tell you a thing or two about ageism in tech) becomes apparent. I have heard story after story from peers (around my age), about passing numerous rounds of phone and test interviews, only to see the interviewer's face fall, as soon as they walk in the door.…
This is absolutely one of my nightmares. I'm turning 40 soon and I know my opportunities of being paid to write software will become more and more limited.
Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]
#60Surprising study results regarding women being more likely to receive a callback than men. From personal experience and the teams I've been on, women have always been in the minority, along the lines of 8-10 men for every two women. However, I am not in Silicon Valley. We need more studies in this area. I'd also like to see studies that include other possible sources of discrimination (gender identity, age) that are…
>From personal experience and the teams I've been on, women have always been in the [minority], along the lines of 8-10 men for every two women.
That's because fewer women overall are applying for such jobs relative to men. Those that are applying are more likely to be hired.