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Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

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Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#331
post #274

AMD's Zen 3 (Ryzen 5xxx series) are beating the Apple M1 in single core score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/singlecore As another datapoint Ian (of Anandtech) estimated that the M1 would need to be clocked at 3.25Ghz to match Zen 3, and these systems are showing a 3.2Ghz clock: https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1326516048309460992

OK... but let's say it's 95% there, even. How much power does an M1 draw compared to a 5950X? It's not even funny. And the M1 is running at a lower clock.

> How much power does an M1 draw compared to a 5950X?

The 5950X cores are actually reasonably power efficient. Anandtech has nice charts here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-di...

TL;DR is that 5950X cores draw about 6W each with all cores loaded at around 3.8GHz per core. They scale up to 20W in the edge case where a single core is loaded at a full 5GHz.

> And the M1 is running at a lower clock.

Comparing a power-optimized laptop chip to an all-out, top of the line desktop chip isn't a great way to compare efficiency because power scaling is very nonlinear. The AMD could be made more efficient on a performance-per-watt basis by turning down the clock speed and reducing the operating voltage, but it's a desktop chip so there's no reason to do that.

Look at the power consumption versus frequency scaling in the Anandtech chart for the 5950X: Going from 3.8GHz to 5.0GHz takes the power from about 6W to 20W. That's 230% more power for 30% more clockspeed. Apple is going to run into similar nonlinear power scaling when they move up to workstation class chips.

If you really wanted to compare power efficiency, you'd have to downclock and undervolt the AMD part until it performs similarly to the Apple part. But there's no reason to do that, because no one buying a top of the line 5950X cares about performance per watt, they just want the fastest possible performance.

Comparing to an upcoming Zen3 laptop chip would be a more relevant comparison. The Apple part is still going to win on power efficiency, though.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#333
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5950X is 105W desktop CPU. Apple M1 is for laptops and Mac Mini.

You can buy it in a Mac Mini, and an iMac eventually no doubt. The "laptop"/"desktop"-grade chip distinction is pretty arbitrary here.

The distinction theme between labtop and destop is customization, integration, and maximization. Apple Silicon is not going to destroy case/fan/liquidcooler/fancyLED/GPU/Motherboard/etc industry. It's still crystal clear distinction.

EDIT:// sorry, i misread/skip the "chip" part.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#334

ARM is the future, at least in laptops. Apple lead the fray again, it's incredible.

Apple is hardly the first laptop manufacturer that built a arm based laptop. Microsoft did it before them with the Surface back in 2012. However it's not going to be as popular as Apple's laptop.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#335

This idea of “actual professionals” that always comes up in response to apple’s “Pro” moniker amuses me to no end. Everybody throws the term around and no two people have the same definition! What in the world is an actual professional? There are professional journalists that just need a browser and text editor. There are professional programmers working on huge code bases in compiled languages that do need a beefy m…

> What in the world is an actual professional?

I would say that generally, a "professional" user of pretty much any tool, is someone for whom the tool's quality is a constraint on their professional productivity.

A professional paint user is an artist. A professional telescope user is an astronomer—or a sniper. A professional typewriter user is a stenographer. A professional shoe user is an athlete.

In all these cases, it's the quality and innovation in the tool, that's holding these professionals back from being even better at their job than they already are.

Also, take special note of the case of the stenographer: professionals often require special professional variants of their tools, which trade off a longer learning curve for a higher productivity ceiling once learned. A stenographic keyboard takes years to learn, but all non-stenographic keyboards cap out at 150WPM, while stenographic keyboards allow those trained in their use to achieve 300+WPM.

And to make one more point: a professional car driver isn't a race-car driver. A professional car driver is a chauffeur. Rolls-Royce's cars aren't famous for how luxurious they are to drive; they're famous for having all the amenities needed by professional drivers — chauffeurs — to allow them to efficiently cater to their clients' needs. Limousines are the same kind of "professional tools" that stenographic keyboards are: they increase chauffeuring productivity.

> How did [video editing] become the default type of professional in the context of talking about computers?

Because all tech vloggers and most tech pundits — the people who review tech — edit videos as part of their jobs, of course ;)

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, 5950X costs 799$ for the chip alone. (cooler no included)

I think it was AnandTech, but an analysis suggested that Apple's BOM price for the M1 (which of course excludes R&D costs, software dev costs, profit, it's just the raw manufacturing cost) to be about $64.

Sure, and AMD's is probably similar.

The difference being that Apple only sells theirs inside of $1000+ computers, and AMD has to make up the entire margin on their CPU alone.

Behold, the power of vertical integration.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#338

What's actually more interesting to me than Intel vs ARM is how much further ahead Apple is vs the competition. The snapdragon 8cx is about 1/3rd the speed in both Single and Multicore performance of the M1. How is Apple so far ahead even with the same instruction set?

QCom focuses their capital on handsets. They could likely compete with Apple design, but they wouldn’t have a market for years. Also, they’d be competing as a commodity against Intel, AMD and AMLogic. In the semi industry, it’s not a good bet to invest only to become a 2nd source that eats into everyone’s margin.

Apple is a vertical. They own their market, so the investment has more predictable returns.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#339
post #274

AMD's Zen 3 (Ryzen 5xxx series) are beating the Apple M1 in single core score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/singlecore As another datapoint Ian (of Anandtech) estimated that the M1 would need to be clocked at 3.25Ghz to match Zen 3, and these systems are showing a 3.2Ghz clock: https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1326516048309460992

The M1 is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s an MVP desktop arm chip. M2, M3... that is when I think we will see stellar performance against things like Ryzen.

I dunno. I find it hard to believe that their next chips will be more powerful. You must have an inside with Apple to know this

Re: Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

#340
post #272
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just outperforming the MacBook Pro. It's also blowing away the current 2020 top-end iMac, which has a 10-core Intel i9. And it's doing this while using more than an order of magnitude less power (10W vs. a TDP of 125W for that Intel part). That's stunning.

> And it's doing this while using more than an order of magnitude less power (10W vs. a TDP of 125W for that Intel part). That's the wrong conclusion to make. For instance, the Lenovo ThinkBook 14s (with a Ryzen 4800u) with a 15W TDP posts the same Geekbench multicore scores [1] as the M1 Macbook. But the ThinkBook isn't in any way faster than the top-end iMac for real world compute intensive tasks. The M1 certainly…

A Ryzen 4800u actually uses up to 25W TDP, depending upon implementation.

And it’s 45% slower in single core.

Most importantly, the M1 is estimated to cost Apple $65, the 4800u is a $300+ part.

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