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Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

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Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#241

Post by shmerl »

ncmncm wrote: post #240
shmerl wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means they aren't curious about progress. Not someone you want to hire, unless those who run projects don't care about anything either. And sure, you can explain to them what better tools can offer. That was the point of the linked post. And if they don't want to hear the answer, then again someone probably hired wrong people there.

Also: you assume you are the arbiter of progress. Not everybody agrees with your assessment. For example: spending an extra hour or three each day, waiting for the compiler, might not seem like progress to everybody. Their assessment is as valid as yours. Furthermore: you assume that people who hire must also agree with you. But, some people who hire want coders coding more and waiting for builds less. That is a legi…

We are long past disputes about progress in this case. So it's simply not caring about it for those who don't see beyond what they are using.

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#242

Post by aw1621107 »

ridiculous_fish wrote: post #210
aw1621107 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious; is the extra cmp something that's actually required by Rust's semantics, or is this more along the lines of an optimizer bug/missed optimization?

This particular case is because array delegates to slice for Eq, and slice has the pointer comparison - though it looks like there's some churn here with 'guaranteed_eq' so it may be fixed soon [1]. 1: https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/core/slice/mod.rs.html#6610

Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining!

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#243

Post by ncmncm »

shmerl wrote: post #241
ncmncm wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: you assume you are the arbiter of progress. Not everybody agrees with your assessment. For example: spending an extra hour or three each day, waiting for the compiler, might not seem like progress to everybody. Their assessment is as valid as yours. Furthermore: you assume that people who hire must also agree with you. But, some people who hire want coders coding more and waiting for builds less. That is a legi…

We are long past disputes about progress in this case. So it's simply not caring about it for those who don't see beyond what they are using.

The issue of intrinsic merit is nowhere near as settled as you imagine, even leaving aside time wasted by Rust's extremely slow compiler.

The fact remains, and will remain, that C++ can encapsulate in libraries semantics that Rust cannot, and according to the Rust core language developers will not. As a direct consequence, it is possible to program at a higher level in C++ than in Rust. This gap will get larger as more libraries are written that exercise the difference, and as C++ adopts new features that expand the difference.

Within the HN echo chamber, the apparent situation is muddier because technical merits carry little weight vs. trendiness and surface sheen.

How likely game programmers are to use the greater capabilities is neither here nor there; they probably see more effect from the extremely slow compiler.

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#244

Post by steveklabnik »

ncmncm wrote: post #243
shmerl wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are long past disputes about progress in this case. So it's simply not caring about it for those who don't see beyond what they are using.

The issue of intrinsic merit is nowhere near as settled as you imagine, even leaving aside time wasted by Rust's extremely slow compiler. The fact remains, and will remain, that C++ can encapsulate in libraries semantics that Rust cannot, and according to the Rust core language developers will not. As a direct consequence, it is possible to program at a higher level in C++ than in Rust. This gap will get larger as mo…

> and according to the Rust core language developers will not.

Which feature are you talking about here?

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#245

Post by ncmncm »

steveklabnik wrote: post #244
ncmncm wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue of intrinsic merit is nowhere near as settled as you imagine, even leaving aside time wasted by Rust's extremely slow compiler. The fact remains, and will remain, that C++ can encapsulate in libraries semantics that Rust cannot, and according to the Rust core language developers will not. As a direct consequence, it is possible to program at a higher level in C++ than in Rust. This gap will get larger as mo…

> and according to the Rust core language developers will not. Which feature are you talking about here?

Numerous features, with more arriving every third year. Operator overloading, exceptions, partial specialization, template function overloading, overridden move constructors, concepts...

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#246

Post by steveklabnik »

ncmncm wrote: post #245
steveklabnik wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and according to the Rust core language developers will not. Which feature are you talking about here?

Numerous features, with more arriving every third year. Operator overloading, exceptions, partial specialization, template function overloading, overridden move constructors, concepts...

Yes, there are many features that C++ has that Rust doesn't have, but "the devs say there never will be" is a different story. For example:

* Operator overloading: Rust already does this

* Exceptions: this is true, Rust will not do this.

* Partial specialization: is in nightly, will be made stable

* Template function overloading: not in Rust, nobody has said "never" though it is controversial

* overridden move constructors: this is true, it won't happen

* concepts: traits are already concepts and exist today.

The situation is significantly different than you've presented. We do have several features that we need to catch up to C++ in areas, but the big ones are on the way. It's more minor or stylistic, rather than capabilities, that are maybe not gonna be a thing.

Re: Why Rust Is the Future of Game Development

#247

Post by dv_dt »

Pfhreak wrote: post #182
dv_dt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think democratization is often used where decentralization fits better as a term.

In this case, the meaning is orthogonal -- it's about accessibility to the tools, and the accessibility of the tools. That could be centralized or decentralized, as long as the tools are easy and available to the masses.

But I think where that doesn't match is democratization means the masses have some critical decision input into the tools. Being able to get the tools on a wide scale, I would say is just plain consumerism or market reach.
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