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My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

portal.drewdevault.com

321–330 of 358 posts

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between being in bad taste and being illegal.

??? do you really not get it? If I wear a shirt with MEDICARE FOR ALL, GREEN NEW DEAL (or SUPPORT ACA and REJOIN PARIS ACCORDS) on it, that's clear partisan support. That's illegal. Thin blue line flags and "support our troops" are out of place and it's two-faced to pretend it isn't just a signal of partisan support. These are some of the major party issues. Bad taste has nothing to do with it. If someone wears a SUP…

I agree that things like 'thin blue line' and 'support our troops' have a political element that would be out of bounds in states with these laws, but its not clear to me that the example cited in the story approaches this level of explicit political meaning.

If it is what he says, then it was simply a copy of text that all soldiers swear to when they enlist. The U.S. Army is not a political organization and contains people from all backgrounds.

What really seems to have happened here is that the author was able to reasonably infer this police officers political affiliation from his clothing and that is not what is prohibited in these laws.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just publicly admitted to breaking California state election code. The California Secretary of State specifically outlined that MAGA slogans and clothing were acceptable at polling places.[0] [0] https://abc7.com/politics/ca-rules-allow-maga-hats-but-no-me...

You caught me! I was actually employed by George Soros and Hillary Clinton to infiltrate the election process, send Trump voters home, and win the whole thing for Biden. 1. We're all volunteers. And human. 2. I've asked precisely zero people wearing MAGA hats to remove them. So much for your crack legal theory about violations of California election law. 3. The one time I've asked someone to remove campaign material…

[deleted]

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#323
post #92

This squares with my experience in Illinois after a couple of elections. * As a security/integrity issue, the ballots themselves are much less scary than the pollbooks, which are what we use to match voters against the voting rolls. * Everything's ultimately on paper; there are bar codes, which nobody loves, but they're auditable against the readable printed ballot. * Most of the security is physical/human; for us, e…

In my country we have a simple rule to prevent electioneering on election day: electioneering on election day is forbidden. Not 100ft, not 100m, simply nowhere.

Same in my country. Elections are always on Sundays and the campaign stops from Friday night to the results reveal at 8 pm the day of the election. Spreading polls results or estimates is also forbidden during this period, even though in recent years it has been hard to enforce especially from foreign sources.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NY state response included sending sick patients into nursing homes. Had other states done that uniformly we'd have even more deaths, not fewer.

That happened in March and April, and obviously it was a mistake. But they controlled it, is the point. Their response after the initial wave has been excellent. But it's a silly digression anyway. If you don't think NY is a good example, then pick Oregon. Or Canada. Or Germany. The point is that lots of large-scale responses of the form a "typical" democratic administration would have taken have very clearly been ef…

Ordering people to wear masks and shut down businesses is like ordering people to exercise, avoid alcohol, eat vegetables, avoid tobacco, and wear sunscreen. It might be fine as friendly advice, but it becomes dictatorial when the leader requires it. I find the demand for less freedom to be deeply disturbing. If it wasn't so scary it would be funny, because people accuse the president of acting like a dictator and then complain when he isn't enough of a dictator.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#325
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did this only happen in swing states and VA though? And why does drift happen _well after_ in-person vote is already counted? And do you have data to support your point #1? Because people claim that, but I don't really see any evidence to support the claim.

Exactly! We didn't see any issues in any non-contested areas. We're seeing serious problems in Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Las Vegas. But we didn't see any issues at all in Miami, or Cleveland, or Iowa City, or Cincinnati, or Dallas, or Nashville, or Houston. All of the other states and cities were able to get their ballots counted. The irregularities in these key cities is highly suspected, especially after…

> All of the other states and cities were able to get their ballots counted.

One has to be careful that comparisons are made between comparable entities. In this case, note that different states can begin processing absentee/mail-in votes at different times [0], so one state being able to handle absentee/mail-in vote processing without apparent incident does not necessarily say anything about how counting might progress in another state.

> Detroit, Philly, ..., Milwaukee

Absentee/mail-in vote processing/counting can only begin on Election Day.

> Atlanta, ..., Las Vegas

Signature verification can be performed upon receipt of the absentee/mail-in ballot, but actual counting can only start on Election Day

> Miami

Ballot verification/counting can start 22 days before Election Day

> or Cleveland, ..., or Cincinnati

Verification and scanning can occur before Election Day. Unclear whether "scanning" includes counting, or just how far ahead of time the process can start.

> or Iowa City

Affadavits may be reviewed the day before Election Day, but counting can only start on Election Day (and must be finished by 10 P.M. on Election Day)

> Or Dallas, ..., or Houston

Verification can be performed upon receipt. Jurisdictions with > or Nashville

Verification can be performed upon receipt, but counting can only start on Election Day.

So in short, some of the examples of cities that count "without incident" can conceivably do so because they have much more time to do so. Iowa City and Nashville are better comparisons, but that doesn't rule out some other factor that renders the comparison invalid.

> All of the other states and cities were able to get their ballots counted.

Do they actually have all their ballots counted, or do they simply not show up in news stories?

For example, Decision Desk HQ reports that Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Georgia have >99% of their ballots in, while Michigan, Kentucky, Utah, Alabama, Nevada, California, and Washington all are reported to have >95% of their ballots in. So by those metrics, states in the first group are doing better than states in the second group, but some states in the second group get attention heaped upon them, while others seemingly pass under the radar.

New York is a particularly egregious example, with a reported 77.3-88.0% of its ballots in. And yet very little attention appears to be devoted to it.

(This assumes DDHQ's numbers are actually reasonable/accurate, of course)

> especially after one State senate race was already overturned in a manual recount, where they discovered 6,000 votes were cast to the wrong presidential party due to 'bugs' in the voting machine software

You seem to be mixing some stories.

From what I understand, the race whose results got reversed was for the Oakland County Board of Commissions [2]. The margin was 1127 votes.

The 6000 vote reversal was from Antrim county. The Michigan Secretary of State has put out a statement about that specific incident [3], where they claim that the error was due to human error, not software error (though it's not entirely unreasonable to say the software is not entirely blameless, as pointed out in [4] by a University of Michigan professor who claims to have looked into the incident [5]), and that no manual recount was involved.

[0]: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-t...

[1]: https://www.votetexas.gov/faq/early-voting.html

[2]: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2020...

[3]: https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-93094-544676--,00....

[4]: https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/human-error-dom...

[5]: https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/...

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. The military is a political entity, and different voters have different opinions on. It's better to err on the side of caution when acting in an official capacity for the election, especially when your organization (the police) are the subject of ballot measures this year. A tap on the shoulder and a polite comment seem well justified to me, and another poll worker agreed.

> The military is a political entity Veteran here, served during the contentious 2000 election. The US military very strongly prides itself on being an apolitical entity. There's an important distinction between the electorate having differing opinions about the role and size of the military and the scope of its missions, and the military itself being a political entity.

With every election cycle, my CO has constantly reminded people that they cannot wear their uniform to political rallies, post on the internet without a disclaimer; the military is not political in any sense.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#327
post #302
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Online voting could be done securely over the network and could be authenticated with a certificate associated with one's voter registration that's anonymized in a way that doesn't reveal any information about the voter other than whether they have already voted. There's a lot of handwaving in this sentence about what can be done. We can't even secure computers when the fate of the entire world _doesn't_ depend on…

> We can't even secure computers when the fate of the entire world _doesn't_ depend on it. This is hyperbole at best. In most cases, international policy does not change all that much regardless of what major party member happens to be president of the US. > I'm not terribly worried about the consequences of someone filing my taxes for me. Unless you have taken the time to fine tune your payments such that you don't…

The problem is voting has to be simple enough that the average citizen can verify it.

That is impossible to do with computers with the current average level of computer literacy.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#328
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happened in March and April, and obviously it was a mistake. But they controlled it, is the point. Their response after the initial wave has been excellent. But it's a silly digression anyway. If you don't think NY is a good example, then pick Oregon. Or Canada. Or Germany. The point is that lots of large-scale responses of the form a "typical" democratic administration would have taken have very clearly been ef…

Ordering people to wear masks and shut down businesses is like ordering people to exercise, avoid alcohol, eat vegetables, avoid tobacco, and wear sunscreen. It might be fine as friendly advice, but it becomes dictatorial when the leader requires it. I find the demand for less freedom to be deeply disturbing. If it wasn't so scary it would be funny, because people accuse the president of acting like a dictator and th…

> I find the demand for less freedom to be deeply disturbing. If it wasn't so scary it would be funny, because people accuse the president of acting like a dictator and then complain when he isn't enough of a dictator.

You seem to be considering "freedom" as equivalent to irresponsibility. Being a leader means convincing people to do work they don't want to do, like wearing masks during a pandemic. We don't even need to debate whether the federal government should have implemented a national mask mandate. Simply having a president that recommended wearing masks instead of encouraging indignant irresponsibility would have saved tens of thousands of American lives, no laws required.

Trump gets called a dictator because he unilaterally picks nonsensical ideas and then barks them at everyone to get done, while accepting no feedback about how things are actually working out. This is the behavior of a dictator, regardless of how much power he actually wields or how effective he is. The latest example is his hissy fit over losing the election - there's no basis in reality, yet he's continuing to push it anyway. Seeing someone acting like the law does not matter sets off the fascist alarm bells.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#329

I'm as much of a technophile as any other HN reader, but I am continuously flummoxed that anyone makes use of the sort of electronic voting machines described in this article. This is mainly from the perspective that a lot of the redundancy and auditability of the system seemed to rely on a bunch of printers working perfectly. Paper ballots and a pencil/pen are still hugely more reliable and trustworthy, IMO.

IMO, the benefits of having electronic voting with an auditable paper trail and backup outweighs the downsides, if implemented properly.

The process described in the article seems a little different than the ones we used in Texas (Dallas County). We have our registration verified and check in, and then are given a paper ballot. You put that into the voting machine, cast your ballot which is recorded electronically on the machine, then printed on the paper ballot and returned to you. You're told to inspect it for accuracy, then deposit it in a _separate_ tabulating machine, which scans it and displays what it recorded when reading your vote, tabulates your vote electronically, and stores the paper backup in a locked deposit box inside the machine. From my understanding, if anything goes wonky during this process and you notice it, you can have the ballot invalidated and receive another to cast. At the end of the day, the counts are printed and stored along with the memory cards on every machine, and those and the secure ballot boxes are all stored with tamper evident seals.

So you have the electronic count on the voting machine from the memory card, the printed count from the voting machine generated at the end of the day, the electronic count on the tabulating machine from its memory card, the printed count from the tabulating machine generated each day, as well as the paper ballots as a backup, which from my understanding are re-tabulated en-masse on larger and faster machines after the election to get a second count as part of the certification process. All data points have to match. None of the machines are connected to the internet, so you'd have to gain physical access to them or the memory cards, and anything done would have to match the counts on all the other associated machines and receipts, plus the paper ballot backups. The Secretary of State also generates a list of voters who cast ballots each day by county and voting location based on when you first check in to vote, so that's another publicly auditable list that would have to match that is not related to the voting machines themselves.

Paper ballots are definitely more simple and probably just as secure, if not more, if handled properly. However, having multiple points of redundancy is invaluable to help quickly identify issues and ensure everything matches over multiple steps of the process.

Re: My experience as a poll worker in Pennsylvania

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voted in Allegheny County. We filled in bubbles on paper, and then at the end, put our ballots in what looked like a scantron machine. It had a screen with a simple confirmation message (something like "thank you for voting") that lit up after it scanned your ballot. I also wasn't asked my party affiliation.

Wow, that's much different. I wonder if the machines are unique to Philly, then.

I know that in Texas, some smaller counties don't use voting machines at all and only do paper ballots. However some of the larger ones like Dallas use a DRE machine combined with a tabulator instead. As long as the Secretary of State approves the method, counties are free to handle it as they see fit.
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