Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#101

Post by shard » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #84

mncharity wrote: post #59

Another perspective: > As a “big S” Socialist [...] I often find myself explaining my preference for the pink paper of liberal capitalism over the Gray Lady of cultural liberalism. The answer is simple: by literally any measure, the Financial Times is just a better paper. It covers the world as it is—a global battle not of ideas or values, but of economic and political interests. [1] [1] Why the Left Can’t Stand The…

Economic and political clashes are not reality. Like the great houses of Game of Thrones fighting a huge civil war, while an unstoppable army of wights readies invasion from the north. Perhaps one can throw around accusations of bias in economics and politics easily, but our own world squabbles in internecine insular conflict while Global Warming, Species Depletion, and other major threats loom. If your "side" denies…

What are the White Walkers and wights but another nation with a different economic system and political agenda?

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#102

Post by tathougies » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:20 AM UTC

matchbok wrote: post #91

zaroth wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I doubt entirely Trump will prevail, but there's no question he's entitled to due process. Votes are still being counted. If the situation was reversed, I doubt Biden would concede until the last vote was counted either. In any case, when he loses--and then looks like a sore loser--it can only possibly help democratic turnout in the GA runoff. Anyway, that's arguing the finer points and missing the forest for th…

MSM is not angry towards trump, they are angry towards a guy who sexual assaults women and who lies every single day. There is a difference. Too bad the snowflakes on the right don't get it. You ever think there is a possibility trump just lies more? Every think about that crazy idea?

Do you know who tara reade is? And if you don't why don't you?

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#103

Post by tathougies » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

tarlinian wrote: post #46

_fq4v wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known t…

The implication of working coronavirus vaccine by end of October was that it would be available for use (you can find quotes from the Trump administration saying they were working on distribution of hundreds of millions of doses by the end of the month), not that there would be a preliminary report from a still ongoing trial indicating that the vaccine works. The Steele dossier includes information from Russian sourc…

> The Steele dossier includes information from Russian sources. It was not "paid for" by Russia.

Literally in USA today today my man: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/10/we-d...

Quote: When the FBI obtained the dossier in September 2016, compiled by a former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele, Comey told lawmakers he was unaware Steele's primary source was a suspected Russian agent.

A Russian agent is someone paid by Russia. Hence the dossier was sourced from misinformation spread by a paid Russian agent.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#104

Post by tathougies » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

matchbok wrote: post #89

_fq4v wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known t…

Trump lies every day, and you have ... the ukraine thing. Gotcha. You don't convince people to stop telling the truth with your cute little nonsense about turning people pro-trump. On election day, this year, he claimed victory before all the votes were counted. If you support that, you don't support democracy. Nothing else compares. Every time a right wing tries to say the "media" is unfair I ask for a single exampl…

Example of unfair media: Nick Sandmann; lack of coverage for Tara Reade; etc. Want more? Let's go...

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#105

Post by generalizations » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:38 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #99

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #62

The sad decline of media into partisanship. The New York Times is as partisan in its readership as MSNBC or Fox(!!). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/01/americans-m...

>The New York Times is as partisan That article talks about the reader's partisanship, not the actual content or particular news org.

> The New York Times is as partisan in its readership

Yes, that's what the parent said.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#106

Post by Anon1096 » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 5:41 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #99

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #62

The sad decline of media into partisanship. The New York Times is as partisan in its readership as MSNBC or Fox(!!). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/01/americans-m...

>The New York Times is as partisan That article talks about the reader's partisanship, not the actual content or particular news org.

Seeing as the article is about the NYT newsroom, it's not limited to the readership. And the article directly says it's not just the readers: "a large portion of the paper’s audience, a number of its employees, and the president himself saw it as aligned with the #resistance."

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#107

Post by dnhz » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 6:00 AM UTC

Sounds quite messy in the slack channels of the nytimes. A democratic (small D) atmosphere where the newspaper’s hierarchy does not seem to matter. Interesting that the tech and data workers of the times feel as justified in opining on the paper’s direction as the writers and editors. This article makes it sound as if the insurrection from within is driven partly by those who are not producing the main content of the paper.

I was surprised to read that the opinion section garners 20% of the reads despite being 10% of the content. I personally avoid the opinion section because it feels impotent; the republicans control the government and indignant opinions change nothing about that.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#108

Post by asdff » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 6:03 AM UTC

ajay-b wrote: post #86

I Was looking at a newspaper from the 1940s and the difference in content presented then, versus even now in large print newspapers, is astounding. There was so much more information conveyed back then, less opinions more information that people could use. It makes me think that our definition of news has gotten away from its original meaning

You can read AP or Reuters if you want more newswire oriented coverage.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#109

Post by tzs » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #80

tzs wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gore spends 30 days pursuing recounts in 2000 before conceding but Trump is supposedly a dangerous dictator for not conceding. Are you comparing pursuing recounts in a single state when the vote difference there is around 500 votes out of nearly 6 million (an amount that is well within the range that recounts frequently reverse) to pursuing recounts in several states where the differences are far larger than any re…

Yes? I doubt entirely Trump will prevail, but there's no question he's entitled to due process. Votes are still being counted. If the situation was reversed, I doubt Biden would concede until the last vote was counted either. In any case, when he loses--and then looks like a sore loser--it can only possibly help democratic turnout in the GA runoff. Anyway, that's arguing the finer points and missing the forest for th…

> If the situation was reversed, I doubt Biden would concede until the last vote was counted either.

The situation was essentially reversed when it was Clinton and Trump. Clinton was behind after the night of the election in 3 states that she needed to win, by amounts ranging from about 0.25% to 0.7%. That's comparable to where Trump is now in the 4 states he needs to win.

She conceded the morning after the election.

You really think Biden would be more like Trump than like Clinton in this kind of situation?

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#110

Post by core-questions » Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 6:08 AM UTC

dnhz wrote: post #107

Sounds quite messy in the slack channels of the nytimes. A democratic (small D) atmosphere where the newspaper’s hierarchy does not seem to matter. Interesting that the tech and data workers of the times feel as justified in opining on the paper’s direction as the writers and editors. This article makes it sound as if the insurrection from within is driven partly by those who are not producing the main content of the…

> Interesting that the tech and data workers of the times feel as justified in opining on the paper’s direction as the writers and editors.

A colleague at a hip American energy-tech startup tells me that this is the new normal for zoomers (<26 years old) in the workplace. "Speaking their mind" at all times on chat when it would be absolutely inappropriate for them to do so in person, no awareness of or care for the existing hierarchy. This meshes badly with boomers and gen-x'rs who implicitly expect a much higher degree of formality, and react in unpredictable ways to insubordination or feeling challenged. It's only going to get worse as the generational shift widens.