Chinese company. They also own Keybase. Think before you use.
Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
361–370 of 438 posts
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#362It's situations like this that makes me wonder whether there should be more efforts put into education and awareness regarding ethics in software engineering. We teach ethics to other STEM disciplines such as biotechnology and aeronautics, why is it left out of software engineering?
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi there! I'm in the video meeting space, and always looking to find that blend between usable and secure. I'm curious - is there a video service out there you would recommend if you're conscious about security? Your third paragraph makes me think your opinion will be that no large company can be trusted, because they become a target for nation-state regulatory bodies.
Use Jitsi ( https://jitsi.org ). You can find people to host or host your own. Open Source. No downloads for participants. try their instance meet.jit.si
I'd love to, but IME it's unstable with more than a handful of participants and doesn't offer stuff I need, such as breakout rooms.
Unfortunately, Jitsi isn't a viable solution at this point except for 1 on 1.
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#364It's situations like this that makes me wonder whether there should be more efforts put into education and awareness regarding ethics in software engineering. We teach ethics to other STEM disciplines such as biotechnology and aeronautics, why is it left out of software engineering?
We had a course on it as part of my degree, I believe it was required for the course to be accredited by the BCS (British Computer Society), but I could be wrong on - this was over 25 years ago.
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In part because executives, marketers and salespeople don't know what it means." Being a technical founder, I found some non-technical founders use this an advantage. They can lie to customers without guilt or investors with brimming confidence about their "MVP". They can use "making it simple" or "ignorance" as an excuse, if at all they get caught. These kind of lies are grey lines and exist everywhere.
I've worked with these types of people and what I've noticed is, even after you explain to them simply what they're saying is false, they insist or pushing those statements or as close to those labels as they can. They may even be angry after you inform them because they lose plausible deniability. I've also been in situations where an ultimatum like E2E encryption is dictated by a marketing team and then expected to…
Your experience sounds identical to my career in biotech. My PI wanted a new line that produced a certain transgenic protein. When I explained that it wasn't possible I was asked if one set of results from another assay could be "used" in the current project. I said no but still provided all the the necessary data to lie if that was what they wanted to do. The lab ended up getting a $75k plus grant because of the fabricated data and I was left disillusioned and quit soon afterward.
Ever since I have told anyone that would listen that science is broken and I rarely believe anything until there is a working product. It is beyond sickening how much and how often people lie and how it is constantly covered up by their colleagues who don't want to cause a fuss.
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#3662020 Zoom lied about end to end encryption
2021 Nobody can have end to end encryption
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've worked with these types of people and what I've noticed is, even after you explain to them simply what they're saying is false, they insist or pushing those statements or as close to those labels as they can. They may even be angry after you inform them because they lose plausible deniability. I've also been in situations where an ultimatum like E2E encryption is dictated by a marketing team and then expected to…
In an unfortunately rare case of reason conquering madness, a VW exec (Oliver Schmidt) was extradited and convicted over the diesel emissions scandal, instead of the engineers taking the brunt of the punishment. We expect name brand products to indemnify their vendors to an extent. Consumers don't want to chase down the guy who made the screw that failed and caused a bunch of excess deaths. You put the screw in the a…
> In an unfortunately rare case of reason conquering madness, a VW exec (Oliver Schmidt) was extradited and convicted over the diesel emissions scandal, instead of the engineers taking the brunt of the punishment.
Side note but I think he was grabbed at the airport, not extradited from abroad.
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
> almost all fail on point 2 unless the user does things that they almost never do Are you referring to the "scan this QR code to verify your partner's key" function in secure messaging apps? I definitely use that. I try to keep all my primary contact's keys verified. It's harder during COVID when you're not meeting up in person as often, because anything besides meeting in person and verifying the two devices direct…
>Are you referring to the "scan this QR code to verify your partner's key" function in secure messaging apps? Yes. Or read the weird numbers/letters over the phone. Or look at the strange image and compare it somehow. For all I know there is something out there that wants you to compare a tune...
That still requires you to trust the client software.
I trust Telegram’s E2E, but not Zoom - unless Zoom’s client is on GitHub with deterministic build steps?
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#369Disrupting an industry seems to mean breaking the rules. When there is no financial penalty it must be read as a tacit approval from government.
Re: Zoom lied to users about end-to-end encryption for years, FTC says
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Are you referring to the "scan this QR code to verify your partner's key" function in secure messaging apps? Yes. Or read the weird numbers/letters over the phone. Or look at the strange image and compare it somehow. For all I know there is something out there that wants you to compare a tune...
That still requires you to trust the client software. I trust Telegram’s E2E, but not Zoom - unless Zoom’s client is on GitHub with deterministic build steps?
Telegram's crypto is shoddy [1]. It may not be a complete train wreck, but if you value good crypto and privacy, Signal is probably your only option. It also offers E2EE group chats, unlike Telegram.
[1] https://security.stackexchange.com/a/49802/29703 (a bit dated but AFAIK nothing changed)