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Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

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Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#21

Post by damnencryption »

ottomatias wrote: post #17
damnencryption wrote: post #7

I have a simpler explanation for media failure. Huge job cuts. Many journalists are now doing work of multiple positions in many places especially online media. New York Times has reduced the number of their total editors in the last 10 years for example. Every major online media had layoffs comparable to 10% of their total workforce in the last 5 years. It affects mid level journalists the most so there are more int…

Did you read the story? NYT newsroom is bigger than ever, it has more cash than ever and has increased it's amount of subscribers several-fold

https://www.statista.com/statistics/192848/revenue-of-the-ne...

It doesn't have more revenue than it did a decade and half ago.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#22

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

Opinion: i like it when journalists state their bias and their opinion, then give their report. If I know a classical Democrat is reporting on a trump rally I can expect some heavy bias. Etc. Maybe journalists and news anchors should have scorecards where they personally identify their opinions on issues from foreign affairs to drugs to crime and gender.

Ethically, is it okay to be biased towards one party (esp as a journalist) when that partys positions are objectively projective, dishonest, and baseless across senior party members, senior partisan journalists in the parties favor, and dutifully documented over the years?

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#23

Post by marcusverus »

bonecandy wrote: post #11
bruceb wrote: post #6

NYT decided to go all in on left leaning, all anti Trump all the time, and even then some of their readers think they are carrying water for Trump.

Hmm I don't really see any evidence of this

You must have missed the few instances when the NYT ran a rare Trump headline that could be regarded as positive, then promptly edited it to include leftward spin under the guise of 'adding context'. Here's the NYT's own reporting on one such instance:

"A print headline on Tuesday’s front page for an article about President Trump’s statement addressing last weekend’s mass shootings has added to a continuing debate over how news organizations cover his administration.

Times editors were concerned that the initial headline — “Trump Urges Unity vs. Racism” — did not contextualize Mr. Trump’s message on Monday and decided to change it for later editions to “Assailing Hate but Not Guns.”"

This strikes me as an open acknowledgement that negative spin is a hard requirement when reporting on Donald Trump at the New York Times.

[0]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/reader-center/trump-mass-...

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#24

Post by damnencryption »

ianmobbs wrote: post #15
damnencryption wrote: post #7

I have a simpler explanation for media failure. Huge job cuts. Many journalists are now doing work of multiple positions in many places especially online media. New York Times has reduced the number of their total editors in the last 10 years for example. Every major online media had layoffs comparable to 10% of their total workforce in the last 5 years. It affects mid level journalists the most so there are more int…

Did you read the article? The Times now employs more people than it ever has and is doing better financially than ever.

Yes I did. It didn't mention anything about more employees (mostly policies to encourage more POC). Although it does mention the expansion of their digital media. That seems fine to me but what about total employees from both digital and paper?

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NYT/new-york-times...

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#25

Post by asdff »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

I think that is totally fine. If you want an unbiased source you can read from a newswire service like AP or Reuters, which often feed directly into nyt and other paper's articles directly.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#26

Post by IgorPartola »

bruceb wrote: post #6

NYT decided to go all in on left leaning, all anti Trump all the time, and even then some of their readers think they are carrying water for Trump.

It is very difficult to be pro Trump while also trying to tell the truth. And the idea behind a reputable media outlet like NYT is that they tell the truth. Trump lies almost constantly, especially to his supporters. How do you report positively on something like that?

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#27

Post by titanomachy »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

Other comments are saying there is no such thing as news without bias, which is true. But I think your question is still meaningful, since news organizations can either try to recognize and correct for their biases or lean into them.

It seems like the NYT's decision to print Senator Cotton's conservative opinion piece was a poorly executed attempt to compensate for their prevailing liberal bias. It's a good idea, but I think they should solicit articles that might actually be convincing to the paper's reader base rather than easily-attacked incendiary pieces with glaring factual errors.

Opinion pieces are a special case, though. For non-opinion articles, I'd prefer that papers strive to lay out the facts as objectively as they can and leave the conclusions to the readers. Their bias will still show up in which stories they choose to promote, which is why I think it's important to get news from at least a few different sources with different biases. I use the opinion section as a rough guide to identifying a paper's editorial biases. Although it may contain articles that diverge from the paper's views, there is usually a clear trend.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#28

Post by IgorPartola »

shrimpx wrote: post #9

In my opinion the NYT has been the clearest and most unrelenting source of anti-Trumpism in the Trump era, and continues to push hard as Trump is not showing signs of letting go. Historically this may play out as NYT devolving into a hopelessly polarized sensationalist pseudo news source, but it could be cemented as a clear stand against despotic inclinations in the Presidency when few others were so determined.

You are confusing anti-Trump bias with telling the truth. Trump being a pathological liar means that any given story about him will sound bad. Example: “Trump said today he is still under audit and unable to release his tax returns. Of course there is zero reason why being under audit would prevent someone from releasing their tax returns and the most likely explanation is that there is evidence of tax fraud that can be uncovered if his tax returns became public.” This is what happens why you are a public figure who lies: it makes you look bad. The solution isn’t to blame the reporters but to stop lying.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#29

Post by tathougies »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

It is okay, and in fact preferable to pick a side, but they portray themselves as 'objective' and 'rational', when they're clearly biased. Just remember the Nick Sandmann story and the subsequent lack of introspection (as well as the continued insistence that the boy did anything wrong on the NYT's behalf).

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#30

Post by titanomachy »

marcusverus wrote: post #23
bonecandy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I don't really see any evidence of this

You must have missed the few instances when the NYT ran a rare Trump headline that could be regarded as positive, then promptly edited it to include leftward spin under the guise of 'adding context'. Here's the NYT's own reporting on one such instance: "A print headline on Tuesday’s front page for an article about President Trump’s statement addressing last weekend’s mass shootings has added to a continuing debate ov…

Good example. Trump continuing to not be an advocate for gun control is not news.
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