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Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

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Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#241

Post by oliwarner »

forest_dweller wrote: post #203
oliwarner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those games don't work. And it's important to note that occasionally those games also don't work for Windows users. New drivers, strange setups, perfectly legitimate background software, they've all upset the boat at some point, and will again in the future. Trusted Clients are fragile beasts. It was Denuvo's Anti-Cheat and Anti-Tamper that were added retrospectively to Doom Eternal. Denuvo has a pretty awful track r…

Well they defintely don't work on Linux which is the point and I definetely can't play them. I personally left a negative review and removed the game until the patch was removed. Whether the anti-cheat should be there isn't the issue. The issue is "does this stop the game from running on Linux". The answer was yes it does. For a lot of people the only reason they buy a PC is to play games. So you might be okay saying…

I'm not trying to give voice to every gamer, just pointing out that there's more to gaming than games that rely on this crap, and that some of us accept that.

Life is full of quasi-moral choices like this. You can choose to support hardware that supports your platform. You can choose to buy local rather than carrots flown in from South Africa; wtf Waitrose! You can donate your time to helping people hoping it makes the world slightly better.

Not playing games that go out of their way to force me to run Windows is my moral stand here. I get that it's not for you, and it's not for a lot of other Windows gamers, and it might even be stopping the Year of the Linux Desktop...

But my view is this too shall pass. Trusted Clients are bound to fail, as they have again and again and again. They're running out of options. Engines with action integrity checks are the future. And e-sports will move to the cloud because that just makes sense for everybody involved.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#242

Post by wetpaws »

hvis wrote: post #230
wetpaws wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does not work for me neither on gnome not on kde and I have to explicitly add gtk_gdi_scalibg to run arguments. Also no fractional scaling, lol.

I'm using it with GNOME 3.36 (Ubuntu 20.04). With 200% scaling set in the Display settings GUI.

Yes, I understand, it might work for you. Not sure if you expect that sharing this would magically make it work for me, the fact is that my personal experience shows it does not work in two entirely different linux distributives.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#243

Post by jay_kyburz »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #238
jay_kyburz wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't actually run a Linux Desktop. KDE is significantly more customizable than windows.

> I'm guessing you don't actually run a Linux Desktop. Wrong. Until about 6 months ago the majority of PCs I owned ran Linux Desktop. Eventually I just got sick of dealing with its nightmarish tangle of half-thought-out systems and currently it only runs on one. KDE is very configurable, but that's only one component of the entire system (and it still has some odd limitations in my opinon). I've been running Linux De…

Woah, apologies if my comment was too short and came across as snarky. Sounds like are a lot more familiar with Linux Desktop than me. I'm fairly new (a few years) and for me everything just works and is more configurable. I am constantly battling with Windows in a way I do not on my Linux system. In my mind, KDE is a better desktop, but I am still forced to use windows because there are a few tools that don't have good Linux alternatives.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#244

Post by asddubs »

Jasper_ wrote: post #143
rasz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it perhaps because Steam Client is being "worked on" by Valve employees (do whatever you want, no bosses, but if you work on something we wont like you will be fired immediately, ask Jeri Ellsworth) while DirecX compatibility is all volunteers with maybe some funding? I googled Hans-Kristian Arntzen (VKD3D-Proton maintainer?) and he doesnt appear to be employed by Valve.

Correct. SteamOS is a passion project by Gabe because of a grudge with Microsoft, and it's basically all contractors. Nobody at Valve internal gives a shit, in fact they're more worried about Epic Games than MS.

contractors who are already experienced/motivated to work on linux probably make more sense for that kind of thing anyway

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#245

Post by jay_kyburz »

giobox wrote: post #239
jay_kyburz wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting you say that, because my response to Epic when they sued Apple was that their time would be better spent contributing to an open platform for phones.

It's beyond scope of a hacker news comment for me, but Epic case against Apple/Google store distribution terms is sufficiently different IMO. How exactly would Epic ship this open platform when Google and Apple expressly control what apps run and do not? From where I stand, without intervention their only option is inferior browser based streaming solutions like this: https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/5/21551152/fortn…

By open platform I meant they they should release their own phone. I believe they could do it for not much more than the price of the lawsuit.

The iPhone is not even a general purpose computer, it's a brick of consumer electronics that just happens to have an app store on it. It's Apples house and they get to make the rules. If Epic doesn't like it they can build their own house, or they can contribute to a house that is free for everybody.

I see Valve contributing to an open house that is free for everybody just in case Microsoft stops inviting 3rd parties into their house.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#246

Post by WhyNotHugo »

coldpie wrote: post #114
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is super hard to get right. Not _really_. The issue is that games are trying to do god-knows-what when they lose focus. In reality, they just need to ignore this happening. Regular applications handle losing focus just fine, and games would too -- unless you try to do magic funky stuff when you lose focus (my guess is that they do this to work around funky WM issues on window that don't exist on Linux).

First, sure, if games didn't do complex things, it would be easier to support. But they do. So it is hard. Also, it's much more complicated than that. When running in exclusive fullscreen mode (which almost all fullscreen games did before about 5 years ago), they have to do stuff like restore the original display resolution, tear down their graphics stack, and restore all of that when bringing the window back up. Man…

> they have to do stuff like restore the original display resolution

This is something that I find incredibly annoying: games handling their own resolution and having their own resolution configuration.

It's like their reinventing something that the OS already provides. Just use the resolution that's configured: if I wanted to change it I'd change it.

Non-native resolutions look awful on LCDs anyway, so apps really shouldn't change it.

Actually though, the easier way to support linux is just to run on windows mode with no chrome -- I can just fullscreen the window myself and that's it.

Games that try to detect screen resolution themselves very often screw up picking the right resolution when you have multiple screens: but again, the problem is they're trying to do too much.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#247

Post by [deleted] »

wetpaws wrote: post #242
hvis wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using it with GNOME 3.36 (Ubuntu 20.04). With 200% scaling set in the Display settings GUI.

Yes, I understand, it might work for you. Not sure if you expect that sharing this would magically make it work for me, the fact is that my personal experience shows it does not work in two entirely different linux distributives.

[deleted]

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#248

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Jnr wrote: post #159
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Steam continuously investing on Linux is what keeps MS in check. Microsoft knows they can't lock down the OS while gaming on Linux [at least] works. It's truly an insurance policy, and they have to pay it each month -- if they let Linux gaming lag behind long enough, they lose their ground on MS.

Microsoft and other game makers will try pushing more exclusives to reduce Valve's "market share". Microsoft recently bought ZeniMax, which makes lots of popular titles that I played on Steam. Unreal is working on their own game store. PS and Xbox has had exclusives for years. If it keeps going this direction, Valve will have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. Either by making some great games again or surprising us…

> Unreal is working on their own game store.

This is so sad. Just fragmenting the market more merely increases the influence of MS.

> PS and Xbox has had exclusives for years.

These don't really compete with PCs. People stick to one, another, or both. Seldom do gamers suddenly switch from PC to console and completely drop their PC.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#249

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Kaze404 wrote: post #120
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #105

I've fascinated with what Steam is doing for gaming on Linux. We'd been moving at a slow pace for years, and suddenly, we're jumping in strides. I'm likewise fascinated about how terrible Steam's CLIENT works on Linux. Like, no hidpi support, (it's just blurry), notifications don't work, and lots of other stuff is broken. Sometimes closing a popup closes the main window, but only for _some_ kinds of popups. It also o…

I hate to be that person but I've had no issues with the Steam client on Linux, and I've used it full time for years. Including more "advanced" features like in home streaming.

Do you have a HiDPI display? Do you use screen scaling?

There's an open bug on their issue tracker with many more suffering from their lack of support. If you you don't use screen scaling, you might not notice it.

Native notifications are simply not implemented, so I guess you merely just haven't noticed that one.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#250

Post by WhyNotHugo »

hvis wrote: post #187
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #105

I've fascinated with what Steam is doing for gaming on Linux. We'd been moving at a slow pace for years, and suddenly, we're jumping in strides. I'm likewise fascinated about how terrible Steam's CLIENT works on Linux. Like, no hidpi support, (it's just blurry), notifications don't work, and lots of other stuff is broken. Sometimes closing a popup closes the main window, but only for _some_ kinds of popups. It also o…

> no hidpi support It's been added quite late, and who knows why it's off by default, but there is a checkbox now in Settings -> Interface called "Enlarge text and icons based on monitor size". Works well here.

That only works if you're running on HiDPI with no screen scaling -- which will just make everything else look tiny (though Steam would look fine).
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