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American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

zdnet.com

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Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#131

Post by ethbr0 »

jedberg wrote: post #119
iso1631 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't fly Air France, not just because of AF447, but also the time they diverted into an airport in the middle of a civil war and had a whip round in first class to pay for the gas to get out of there. https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/air-franc...

I won't fly Air France because they cost me 500 euros for nothing. I was in Paris and set to leave and they went on strike. I waited in line for hours to try and get on any flight out, and they said there was no chance I would leave that day, and I should book a hotel. So we booked the cheapest thing we could find that would work with our baby, and it was 500 euros for the night. Two hours later they called us and to…

Your misconception was assuming people in Paris cared about you.

It is my experience that they barely care about other Parisians, and effectively negatively about anyone else.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#132

Post by LatteLazy »

cgriswald wrote: post #112
LatteLazy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats great. But then when you get to the gate and there is a 737Max sat there waiting for you, do you board? Or do you accept that you won't get a refund and now need to buy another flight and just hope there is one today for an affordable price with a seat not on a 737Max?

Consumers aren't exactly helpless here. The worst-case scenario is the customer is unable to get another flight (for whatever reason) and 'has to' board the 737Max that one time. The customer can then choose not to book with that airline again. I'm already not a fan of AA, and with this news I can happily avoid this situation by simply not flying AA. Will I always feel this way? We'll see. I'm fine with letting other…

It would be interesting to see how elastic demand is for this factor. I guess it depends on how easy it is to book the same flight with another airline who don't use 737Max vs how much of a discount the airline can get for using them (plus passenger numbers and what proportion care and how effective a rebranding they can run etc).

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#134

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

scarier wrote: post #127
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not once, but TWICE, software taking readings from faulty sensors caused the airplane to nosedive into the ground, killing every single person on board, with the pilots powerless to take over. I believe technically if they followed the runaway trim in memory checklist the system would have been disabled? This is how the pilot of the Lion Air flight the day before prevented disaster. >At this point, I would consider…

>I believe technically if they followed the runaway trim in memory checklist the system would have been disabled? This is how the pilot of the Lion Air flight the day before prevented disaster. Yes, but the failure they experienced feels absolutely nothing like runaway trim. It's great that some pilots were able to troubleshoot the failure in time, but that's not something you can really expect from everyone. Adequat…

I agree and they should fix the process as well as the causes (as they have).

But there was a way to stop it is all I'm saying (the claim was that there wasn't). The Ethiopian Air pilots also tried, but missed a crucial step when running the checklist.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#135

Post by abrowne »

jedberg wrote: post #120
deeblering4 wrote: post #23

I’m at a point where I just opt for carriers with Airbus fleets. I do not trust modern day American corporations nor the oversight bodies. There are too many financial incentives to cut corners.

Which domestic US airline flies Airbus?

I believed I've flown Delta Airbus planes, but they have Boeing planes too.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#136

Post by bilbo0s »

ethbr0 wrote: post #128
iso1631 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's Boeing, I ain't going

> If it's Boeing, I ain't going You're not going to fly one of the statistically safest [0] planes on the planet in the 737-6/7/8/900? [0] http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

The 737 8 is what they are rebranding the MAX as, I'm not certain I would call it the "statistically safest plane on the planet".

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#137

Post by temp667 »

js2 wrote: post #92
pirocks wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pitot tubes icing over is common on all planes not just Airbus planes. It's more or less expected and planned for.

I’m not a pilot. I’ve just read the Wikipedia page on this crash and the final report. I don’t know what is common or expected and planned for but I take your characterization to mean that you think that it’s not a significant problem. There’s three pitot tubes. There were ADs issued over them icing over. Airbus replaced them multiple times with tubes from different vendors. In the final report, the first major issue…

It really highlights how terribly trained the pilots involved are - temporary inconsistency in measured speeds (there are still plenty of reasonable speed sources) in almost all other planes does not result in the plane crashing. Heck, my GPS can do groundspeed easily enough and you have basic pitch and power settings.

How did they not notice their altitude was climbing as they pulled the plane up - they got into a CLIMB rate of 7,000 feet per minute - that's STUPID! WHY climb like that? This has nothing to do with airspeed.

The stall alarm goes off 75 times!

They reduce power to idle for a bit??

It's total nonsense, anyone who has flown a single engine cessna for 200 hours or more would have been able to get out of this easily just based on stall buffet and stall alarms.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#138

Post by selectodude »

jedberg wrote: post #120
deeblering4 wrote: post #23

I’m at a point where I just opt for carriers with Airbus fleets. I do not trust modern day American corporations nor the oversight bodies. There are too many financial incentives to cut corners.

Which domestic US airline flies Airbus?

Spirit, Frontier, American, United, Delta, JetBlue; i'm sure I'm forgetting a couple. The only airlines that are exclusively Boeing are Alaska Airlines and Southwest.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#139

Post by js2 »

getpost wrote: post #114
js2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitot tubes had iced-over and it wasn't the first time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Pitot_tu... But that's not what made me nervous about Airbus. Rather, that's when I learned that Airbuses are flown by side-sticks that aren't mechanically linked while Boeings are flown by yokes which are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Side-sti... The idea that two pilots can provide…

The advantages of fly-by-wire are too good to pass up, so that leaves the question of how to design an FBW system. A high school teacher of mine in the 1970s predicted an accident like AF447. He framed it this way: the 'American' approach is to implement FBW to always do what the pilot inputs indicate, whereas the 'French' approach is to do the right thing, and override the pilot if the FBW 'knows' better. That's an…

> although the ulitimate cause of the crash was a pilot making what amounts to a beginner mistake.

But it was only one of the pilots, the right-side pilot, who continued to hold the stick back and and retained command. The left-side pilot didn't realize that was occurring until it was too late.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#140

Post by ethbr0 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #136
ethbr0 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's Boeing, I ain't going You're not going to fly one of the statistically safest [0] planes on the planet in the 737-6/7/8/900? [0] http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

The 737 8 is what they are rebranding the MAX as, I'm not certain I would call it the "statistically safest plane on the planet".

> 737 8

800

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