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How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

kevin.deldycke.com

191–200 of 259 posts

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#192
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these shill accounts? I've seen raving template-looking comments for Brother in every printer thread for the past few weeks. Get yourself a Edit: Sorry if I'm jumping the gun. Maybe they really are just great?

I’m gonna get myself one and see. I’m leaning towards the comments are just authentic users excited about a quality product. I never got an uncanny valley feeling from them. I’m just so sick of the inkjet racket and this latest HP move is the last straw.

This is exactly what I thought, so I have a brand new £55 Brother laser printer sitting at home, ready to be opened and tested!

I did have a cheapo Samsung laser printer many years ago, and it was great. Not sure why I reverted to bloody inkjets after that (I have two once quite expensive inkjets sitting in the corner here, sworn off).

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#193
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brother also has a handy iOS app for printing and scanning.

Are these shill accounts? I've seen raving template-looking comments for Brother in every printer thread for the past few weeks. Get yourself a Edit: Sorry if I'm jumping the gun. Maybe they really are just great?

Maybe? But their experiences do match mine. I bought a cheap Brother printer laserjet a few years ago. I needed the occasional B&W print job and plugged in the ethernet port. It worked out of the box for Debian and Windows, no special drivers needed. (I used to have to have some strange binary, but that hasn't been necessary anymore).

I don't remember the last time I exchanged out the toner cartridge (Maybe it's the first one? But I think I did have to exchange it at some point.), and it works reliably everytime I need to print. For $100, that isn't bad.

For another reference, I also bought one for my old college lab in ~2008-2009. I went back for a visit in 2019, and it was still there and it was working fine.

I get what you mean though, it seems in every printer thread the Brother recommendations have popped up.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#194
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just ordered an HP laser printer since Wirecutter recommended it. Not used it yet. On HN I see people recommending Brother all the time though, so now I hope my HP is still ok :-)

FWIW, I've been using HP lasers for the last 12 years. The first one started getting a bit wonky after 9 years and I replaced it; the new one has been fine. We do a middling amount of printing (~10,000 pages over those 9 years, iirc). I haven't tried non-first party toner; the B/W high-capacity HP toner cartridges for my current printer, for example, are ~$200 and last for ~10,000 pages, which works fine for me; my t…

Good to know, thanks!

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#195

If all you need is black and white printing, there is no need to be buying HP inkjet printers anymore. Get yourself a Mine has been going strong for like 10 years now.

I agree, the inexpensive laser printers are amazing. But I do wonder whether this problem will continue to be specific to ink jet printers. It's easy enough to make a laser printer refuse to print with a third party cartridge. Many refrigerators do the same thing to prevent you from using third party water filters. I think this is a more general pattern than inkjet printers.

There is definitely lots of DRM-type stuff happening in laser printers, mostly on the higher end. It goes beyond just 3rd party, too.

The best example I've heard from this was from {large-copier-manufacturer}. Someone (not an official dealer) in the middle east had purchased a truckload of copiers and cartridges in a fire sale from a business in the UK that was closing. They sold these copiers locally, of course undercutting regular local prices. Everything was fine until all the customers needed new toner, which they purchased locally, and suddenly got errors telling them the toner was incompatible.

What happened is while the copiers themselves are the same globally, the cartridges are region-encoded. The first time the copier powers on, it does a write-once setting to region-lock itself to whatever cartridge is installed. There's apparently no factory reset or software change to modify this setting (in the name of security), so the only fix was either to import cartridge from the UK (which the official dealers can't even do) or replace the mainboard to fully reset the thing back to how it comes from the factory.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#196
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Epson has been bugging about a firmware update for ages. Not a chance I’m going to upgrade as it kicks up enough of a fuss about third-party ink as it is.

The most infuriating thing about Epson inkjets is that they refuse to function if any color ink is low. I can't print black and white right now because I'm waiting on a yellow cartridge to arrive. Most bizarre is that I never actually print color, except for running calibration, so I don't know where all the ink went.

yellow dots https://www.eff.org/issues/printers

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can understand HP wanting to prevent their customers from being conned into buying false cartridges, or wanting to ensure the best possible experience for customers. Nah, that's just the marketing PR blurb they attach to this stuff. The real reason is $$$, nothing else.

Sometimes I think "but won't this hurt them in the long term? After dealing with HP printers I get nautious when looking at an HP logo, I get this bracing defensive adversarial feeling, this can't be good for a brand". But then I realize I'm not a typical consumer, and most of us aren't, here on HN. Do typical consumers even have the vocabulary and mental concepts in place (the basics you learn in e.g. free software…

Another possibility is they're trapped by other agreements that prevent them from voting with their wallet.

The obvious example is predatory MSPs where they talk their customers into certain printers and sell them ink. A 10% commission on a $600 set of toners is easy money compared to a $150 set of toners where a 10% ($15) commission isn't even possible.

The other less obvious one is franchises. Part of the franchise agreement will include having corporate be the supplier for all the lease hold improvements, all the furnishing, office supplies, etc., plus all of the ongoing consumables. It's sold as consistency to protect the brand, but a lot of it is about increasing profits for the corporate side at the expense of their franchisees. I've seen it first hand.

In the case I saw, I knew someone who bought into a franchise and asked me about some of the tech stuff. The franchise sold them cheap products with too much markup, but the most egregious was the printer. They were sold a cheap inkjet printer and they were buying 2-3 sets of cartridges per month. That's $3000-4000 per year (CAD) for printing. It may not sound like much, but this was a small business where they were hoping for $30k-$60k of (owner absent) annual profit.

The reason behind that is twofold. First, the franchises are easier to sell because the upfront costs are lower and the purchaser usually doesn't realize the trade-off is higher ongoing and total (lifetime) operating costs. The second is because the franchise supplier is making money off of those higher ongoing costs. It's awful for the franchisees and many of them don't realize what's happening until they're all-in.

TLDR; It's predators all the way down :-(

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#198
post #27
post #10

Most of printer drivers are BS. I also bought a printer after lockdown, and had to spent hours to do research on the printer model that's interested me: Mac & linux compatible. The result is Brother is the most reliable and less BS than the rest printers. In the end, I bought a wireless Brother printer, and you can throw whatever cartridge in to it.

I have run a paperless business (and life, mostly) for the past 10 years. For some old-fashoned customers I always carried a Brother DS-mobile 600 portable document scanner in my bag. The scanner was expensive, but really nice. And it worked perfectly with MacOS 'capture' application that existed on Snowleapard (10.6). However, Apple removed TWAIN support in MacOs Lion (10.7), and Brother refused to release updated d…

Try https://exactcode.com, has buildin scanner drivers.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#199
Interesting. I have the exact same printer (HP Color LaserJet M254dw) and was curious to see if it automatically updated itself. The firmware datecode on my printer, 20190807, is even older than what the author downgraded to.

I'm not sure if I turned auto updates off when I set the printer up. I did go through most of the configuration UI via a web browser and know that I switched it to "IT-managed" mode - maybe that turned off auto updates. The printer is on a VLAN that connects to the internet, but I've turned off every option that sounds like it reaches out to a cloud service.

Overall, this is a decent printer for me. It seems to meet all of my requirements - I can leave it unused for long periods and it will still wake up and print as soon as I tell it to. It's a laser printer, so no worries about clogged nozzles/dried up ink. There are four individual toner cartridges, so no need to a set of three colours because one ran out. Windows and MacOS both discovered the printer on the network and automatically figured out the drivers.

Printers generally suck, but this one doesn't seem to suck too badly.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#200
post #94

Besides all the obvious stuff, what also bugs me about this tactic is that it makes people weary of performing (or allowing automatic) firmware upgrades for printers, historically one of the least secure devices on a network.

What happens if you give them local WIFI but block them from reaching outbound?

They can still be used by malware to gain persistence on a network, or to escalate their privileges.
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