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Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

phoronix.com

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Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#151
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not touching games which do that

Welcome to any competitive multiplayer game in 2020. My favorite example is PUBG and their insecure netcode (for the first 2 years it was entirely unencrypted). At one point the cheating was so predominant that they banned anyone running VirtualBox and the game at the same time. I was swept up in that because I had a background dev VM running that I forgot about.

Kernel anti cheat rootkits meanwhile server doesnt even perform the most basic sanity checks, like

is client entity running at the speed of light?

is client entity teleporting all over the map?

is client entity allowed to fly?

or asking really "hard" questions, like

should server really send detailed position and model data (animation frame, items equipped etc) of players not in a Potentially visible set to client entity?

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#152
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in strides because they don't want to get shut out of the Windows market. Having a credible alternative stay's Microsoft's hand about going Apple and requiring apps only come from the store except for Enterprise editions.

Not trying to play devils advocate here, but who genuinely believes a Linux Steam client is a "credible alternative" to Steam on Windows? It's an alternative, I agree, but I can't imagine a world in which it makes a dent on their Windows revenues any time soon. If Microsoft try to really force Store only app distribution on all users, I think Valve's time would likely be better spent in the courts than trying to get…

It's usually better to have established alternatives before they're needed than to try and establish one after significant hurdles have been put in place. I'd say Steam on Linux is plenty credible without currently being a threat to Microsoft.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#153
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unquestioned market dominance.", not really.

You disagree that Steam is the market leader in PC game distribution?

I definitely do. Any independent market reports from IGDA or similar to prove otherwise?

Valve own marketing material doesn't count.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#154
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it perhaps because Steam Client is being "worked on" by Valve employees (do whatever you want, no bosses, but if you work on something we wont like you will be fired immediately, ask Jeri Ellsworth) while DirecX compatibility is all volunteers with maybe some funding? I googled Hans-Kristian Arntzen (VKD3D-Proton maintainer?) and he doesnt appear to be employed by Valve.

What happened with Jeri Ellsworth? I love her work. I vaguely remember her spinning out her Valve project into a new company backed by Valve. I believe there was a Kickstarter.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/30/no-bos...

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because they're working on Linux support, they don't care about Linux desktop. Steam os is based on Linux, but it would be naive to think they put much work in supporting Linux desktop, since the market share is neglibe.

What's interesting is that games are one of the main reasons the market share is negligible. It used to be games and Office, but home users can increasingly get by with the web version or Google Docs or LibreOffice. But people still keep Windows on their PCs for games. If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows?

> If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows?

Let me tell you a story:

In the late 1940s the US airforce had a serious problem: many pilots were dying in incidents caused by apparent pilot error. At one point this number reached 17 pilots a day. After ruling out training as a cause, they turned their attention to ergonomics. In the 1920s, they had conducted a study to determine the physical dimensions of the average pilot and standardized all cockpit layout based on said average. Naturally, they suspected that the average pilot had changed over the nearly-two-decades since and conducted another study. With over 140 measurements of over 4,000 pilots they expected to be able to create a new standard for cockpit dimensions and layout that would better fit the contemporary average pilot.

And they probably would have done just that, if not for Lt. Gilbert S. Daniels. Daniels was a junior researcher assigned to taking the measurements. Due to his previous work on human body measurements, Daniels believed that designing for the average pilot was useless at best. Daniels created a picture of the average pilot the military wanted, which he defined as being in the middle 30% of values in each measurement, and then demonstrated that exactly 0 pilots in the study matched all 10 of the dimensions determined to be most relevant. Further, even when you chose only 3 such dimensions, fewer than 4% of pilots matched.

The conclusion was that there was no such thing as the average pilot and if you designed around this fictional entity your cockpit wouldn't fit anybody. If you wanted to have pilots that fit the cockpit, you had to design cockpits that would adjust to fit individual pilots.

The lesson? Linux Desktop evangelists seem to expect that people should love Linux Desktop because they worked so hard to make it usable for what they imagine is the average user, apparently completely ignorant that there is no such person. Desktops are personal devices that need to be able to accommodate the user's individual workflows. Does Windows excel at this? Well, not really and it has been getting worse, but Windows accommodates software in a way that Linux Desktop doesn't: it isn't hostile to commercial software, it works hard at maintaining compatibility with old software, and it allows for direct distribution from developer to user without middlemen gumming up the works. That enables third parties to help users fit their computer to their workflow. Linux Desktop is bad at all these things and though it is theoretically more adjustable, the reality is that trying to fit it to your usecases is an exercise in fighting this average user mentality and often involves dealing with a ludicrously complex intertwined system of mis-matched components at a very intimate level.

That's what is keeping people on Windows.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#156
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in strides because they don't want to get shut out of the Windows market. Having a credible alternative stay's Microsoft's hand about going Apple and requiring apps only come from the store except for Enterprise editions.

Not trying to play devils advocate here, but who genuinely believes a Linux Steam client is a "credible alternative" to Steam on Windows? It's an alternative, I agree, but I can't imagine a world in which it makes a dent on their Windows revenues any time soon. If Microsoft try to really force Store only app distribution on all users, I think Valve's time would likely be better spent in the courts than trying to get…

Its an alternative in a same way Tizen is Samsungs alternative to Android, or Munich Linux deployment. Its there to get favorable treatment, nothing more.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#157

This is nice and all but they need to fix things like alt-tabbing in an out of a game. Many games just crash. I know it sounds dumb but sometimes when organising a game or using discord you need to alt-tab from the game to the chat app. This almost never happens with Windows unless the games are old. Also performance when streaming via discord or OBS significantly drops the framerate even on games my rig can play at…

From my experience most games work fine when switching away. However I know that Don't Starve Together and some other games really freak out. (I've been lucky enough not to see any crashes though) What I have found is that running games under Wayland (via XWayland) makes a lot of games behave better. I don't know exactly why this is but I suspect they are trying to manipulate a bunch of settings like fullscreen/input…

Haven't tried it myself since I switched away from NVIDIA, but supposedly initial support for the NVIDIA specific interface was added in KDE 5.16 and Gnome 3.31 both released last year might not be available if you are on a LTS distro.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#158

I've fascinated with what Steam is doing for gaming on Linux. We'd been moving at a slow pace for years, and suddenly, we're jumping in strides. I'm likewise fascinated about how terrible Steam's CLIENT works on Linux. Like, no hidpi support, (it's just blurry), notifications don't work, and lots of other stuff is broken. Sometimes closing a popup closes the main window, but only for _some_ kinds of popups. It also o…

I hate to be that person but I've had no issues with the Steam client on Linux, and I've used it full time for years. Including more "advanced" features like in home streaming.

I have only had getting the steam client to launch, and only after a fresh install. This was mainly on OpenSUSE a few years ago; I could get it working maybe 2/3 times after a fresh install, depending on whether I installed all the hacks in the correct order. Once it started up, I never had problems booting it again.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#159
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, Valve started doing this some time ago as an "insurance policy", when Microsoft spoke about locking down Windows (before they introduced Windows Store). It is amazing to see how far Linux gaming has come since then. 10 years ago almost none of the big games worked, 5 years ago lots of games worked after fiddling with wine config, and now most of the games I have tried work out of the box afte…

Yeah, Steam continuously investing on Linux is what keeps MS in check. Microsoft knows they can't lock down the OS while gaming on Linux [at least] works. It's truly an insurance policy, and they have to pay it each month -- if they let Linux gaming lag behind long enough, they lose their ground on MS.

Microsoft and other game makers will try pushing more exclusives to reduce Valve's "market share".

Microsoft recently bought ZeniMax, which makes lots of popular titles that I played on Steam. Unreal is working on their own game store. PS and Xbox has had exclusives for years.

If it keeps going this direction, Valve will have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. Either by making some great games again or surprising us with something completely new.

Competition is great for consumers, but I am somewhat rooting for the guys that improve free, open source software in the process.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#160
post #96
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe share an exFAT partition? Is the support of exFAT on Linux any good now?

If you're intending to use Proton, FAT filesystems aren't recommended as they don't support symlinks or certain important filename characters like ':'.

I don't understand the last part. : is not a supported character on Windows at all. Windows games should not expect to be able to access file names that contain it.
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