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Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

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Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#71

Post by flohofwoe »

AshleysBrain wrote: post #26

It's cool seeing the tech develop to run D3D/OpenGL on Vulkan/DX12/Metal, moving a lot of code out of drivers and in to libraries. But in the long term apps should all end up using Vulkan/DX12/Metal themselves directly (or modern derivatives) - so there won't be many uses for the old legacy D3D/OpenGL stacks left, so these libraries will probably fall out of use too. So, nice for the short/medium term, but probably n…

Keeping older D3D and GL versions alive via emulation layers on top of modern APIs totally makes sense also for the future. Only few applications and games actually benefit from the new APIs, but the new APIs require a lot more work and detailed knowledge of what's going on under the hood (with the exception of Metal vs GL of course, Metal is a lot nicer to work with than GL; but if you compare D3D11 to Vulkan or D3D12, then D3D11 definitely is the more "ergonomic" API - at least for rendering traditional triangle geometry).

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#72

Post by baq »

eptcyka wrote: post #44
ekianjo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of games now don't work because of anti-cheat technologies. But Valve is working on this with Codeweavers with their refactoring of NTDLL.

The most egregious anti-cheat stuff is actually implemented in a windows kernel driver - I'm not optimistic about this being resolved without first party support for Linux.

i'm not touching games which do that

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#73

Post by martinald »

eznzt wrote: post #34
arc-in-space wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch out, the suggestions in the other replies are hazardous. It's possible to add your windows Steam library to a Linux client, after mounting the windows partition, and this will work fine most of the time(so you could still give it a try). However, you're also likely to run into annoying-to-debug issues due to Linux's mishandling of ntfs. I've eventually given up on this method, and I'm not sure if there is a goo…

Maybe share an exFAT partition? Is the support of exFAT on Linux any good now?

There is 'native' support in Kernel 5.4 which doesn't require any extra drivers. The other driver I've used before that is userspace so can be a bit slower but works fine.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#74

Post by eptcyka »

fctorial wrote: post #63
eptcyka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most egregious anti-cheat stuff is actually implemented in a windows kernel driver - I'm not optimistic about this being resolved without first party support for Linux.

> without first party support for Linux. Or for wine

It would be quite the undertaking for wine to also emulate not just the Windows userspace but also the whole Windows kernel to allow for the rootkit anti-cheat driver to run.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#75

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ho_schi wrote: post #36
zufallsheld wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy their games without steam.

I'm thankfully for the native games from Valve on Linux. And also for improving gaming on Linux in general. Steam? Steam itself is not necessary and is just another system to lure users and developers into a Vendor Lock-In. Everything useful it provides should be part of libraries. In a better world - we would use a package manager or Flatpak to install games. I'm sick of the software industry, every big company trie…

> Steam itself is not necessary and is just another system to lure users and developers into a Vendor Lock-In

This ignores the history of how Steam came about in the first place. The PC gaming industry was basically dying because physical distribution was expensive, which made the games expensive too, so a lot of users just pirated games (by downloading them from the internet) because it was easier. Valve recognized that piracy was a symptom of a service problem and set out to create the convenient service experience of piracy in legitimate form. It was actually widely hated at first because people assumed malevolence, but over time Valve has proved their good intentions with the platform. They helped kick off the indy explosion with the Potato Sack, they allow developers to sell Steam keys on other stores without giving Valve a cut, they never ask for exclusivity, and despite what many internet whiners complain about they actually try pretty hard to have worthwhile recommendation and review systems.

> Everything useful it provides should be part of libraries. In a better world - we would use a package manager or Flatpak to install games.

This is basically already the case. Steam is the manager, and it also provides the libraries for its functionality (DRM, workshop, achievements, etc) that are entirely optional. There are games on Steam that don't use any of that and you can copy them to a system without Steam and they run fine (BallisticNG was like this last I checked). Hell, as EA and Ubisoft proved you can even install and run your own alternative client as part of your game you sell on Steam (though thankfully the store now warns users about this behavior).

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#76

Post by cannedslime »

Zhyl wrote: post #67
LeonM wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all versions of AoE in my steam library, currently none of those are playable on Linux. Not surprising since the games are developed by Microsoft. You could try Wine, I haven't tried that.

From ProtonDB: Age of Empires 2 (2013) - Platinum Age of Empires 3 - Gold Age of Empires 2 - Gold Age of Empires - Gold https://protondb.com/search?q=age%20of%20empires

So not definitive edition ? :(

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#77

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Cloudef wrote: post #59
forest_dweller wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. The games do not work. As you said some install Kernel Level drivers (I believe this is a Ring-0 but I am not an expert in such things) as a Anti-cheat mechanism. These do not work with Wine/Proton. e.g. Doom Eternal worked fine until the first patch and then didn't once the anti-cheat was installed (for the non-existant multiplayer community). Then they removed it only after the fanbase he…

People are insane to begin with to install some rootkit on their system just to play a game.

To some people, the priority is the game and they couldn't care less about the borderline malware required to do so.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#78

Post by seg_lol »

marvin wrote: post #45
merlinscholz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same experience with Doom (2016). The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux, which threw me off for the first few hours. After getting used to it I only boot to Windows for UWP games.

>The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux Huh. That's a big competitive advantage in competitive games. Why don't pro CS players use Linux? Is the difference smaller in the games that have been optimized for competitive play?

> for the first few hours

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#79

Post by ianhawes »

baq wrote: post #72
eptcyka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most egregious anti-cheat stuff is actually implemented in a windows kernel driver - I'm not optimistic about this being resolved without first party support for Linux.

i'm not touching games which do that

Welcome to any competitive multiplayer game in 2020.

My favorite example is PUBG and their insecure netcode (for the first 2 years it was entirely unencrypted). At one point the cheating was so predominant that they banned anyone running VirtualBox and the game at the same time. I was swept up in that because I had a background dev VM running that I forgot about.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#80

Post by faitswulff »

forest_dweller wrote: post #47

This is nice and all but they need to fix things like alt-tabbing in an out of a game. Many games just crash. I know it sounds dumb but sometimes when organising a game or using discord you need to alt-tab from the game to the chat app. This almost never happens with Windows unless the games are old. Also performance when streaming via discord or OBS significantly drops the framerate even on games my rig can play at…

This is a workaround, but I use Discord on my phone to avoid having to go afk in games. It works almost as well as the desktop client, for the most part.
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