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Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

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Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a few years at Caltech in an academic role (not as a student). I never understood the rationale behind the unsupervised take-home exams. Could you elaborate what is it that makes it a 'success', in your opinion? The shortcomings that seem obvious to me are: - Penalizes honesty - Implied notion that Caltech students are "honourable" and honest. How is this achieved in practice?

I was an undergrad at Rice where we had a very strong honor code. Unsupervised exams were common, and to the best of my knowledge cheating was very rare. If you were accused of cheating then you went before the Honor Council, which was run entirely by students. I considered this an enormous success. It created an atmosphere where we were treated with respect, and where we were expected to treat others in the same way…

Fellow Rice graduate here. Looking back, being treated with trust and respect - after a decade of the opposite treatment at the hands of middle and high school - was a real turning point for me. We were trusted to make our own choices, and expected to reciprocate. In my experience, this leads to fewer cases of anti-social behavior. Which is more trustworthy - a company that simply expects tasks to be completed well and on-time, vs. a company that takes screenshots of everyone's machine and tracks bathroom breaks? I find it's overwhelmingly the former. Granted, the causal arrow may go either way.

The council does have teeth. My friend was sent in and found guilty of cheating on a test. They got kicked out in short order. The straight-A student they'd allegedly copied the answers from got a few months' suspension. I never got an explanation as to why the sentence differed.

No system is perfect.

A professor questioned me as a witness at the "student council" hearing. I expected a student to do the job. The questions were all worded to make my testimony skew towards a guilty verdict, calling my own integrity into question. This is expected if there was a mechanism for an organized defense, but I was never questioned by the "defense attorney". I left the questioning disturbed and frankly afraid for the safety of my own academic record despite not having done anything wrong. Guilt by association. It felt like a witch hunt and a front for implicit faculty power. My friend still denies wrongdoing and had to rebuild their degree from scratch at another institution. They are still proud of the time spent at Rice, even though they feel their degree was taken away unfairly. The only evidence I heard against my friend was that they had made the same mathematical error as the other implicated party.

My first take-away from the situation was that organizations based on trust work well, but it is critical to have robust mechanisms in place for dealing with moments where that trust gets called into question. It is human nature to take trust away faster than it is given, even if it turns out there was no wrongdoing.

My second take-away is that organizations based on trust tend to punish violations disproportionately, especially if the violation reflects badly upon the group.

My third take-away (only realized years after the fact) was that trust-based systems tend to create a tyranny of implicit rules that tend to exclude newcomers (like students) unless specifically addressed.

I'm still very much in favor of a high-trust environment, but it is far from a cure-all. I find it's a prerequisite to a robust system, but must be paired with counterbalances.

For my beef with the Student Council, Rice was an overwhelmingly positive and nurturing experience. If I ever decide to get another degree, that's where I'll go, and I always recommend it to prospective students with an independent streak.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#72

Folks are doing take-home exam wrong. Caltech had tremendous success with a culture of honesty and take-home exams.

I spent a few years at Caltech in an academic role (not as a student). I never understood the rationale behind the unsupervised take-home exams. Could you elaborate what is it that makes it a 'success', in your opinion? The shortcomings that seem obvious to me are: - Penalizes honesty - Implied notion that Caltech students are "honourable" and honest. How is this achieved in practice?

I had these at my university (not Caltech). These take home exams are much, much harder than anything they can give you in a timed in-person exam. It’s not even close.

This is simply because the set of problems a person can solve in 3hrs limits the scope of the questions that could be asked. In fact, my friends and I would make lists of things we were sure wouldn’t be on the exam due to time constraints.

I have to say that nobody cheated. This was partly due to my physics graduating class being 12 students.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#73
post #54
post #9

Back in the good ol' days, you could just take the exam inside of a VM. The VM is locked down, but the host isn't. Looks like from ProctorU's docs[1] that they got around to probing for the (blatantly obvious[2]) signatures of a VM and stopped that trick. I wonder if those signatures exist in a Windows Sandbox[3] instance, or if you can detect/block the Enhanced RDP Session Windows leverages when running a Sandbox...…

I would be in favor of a VM that is indistinguishable from a non-VM host. Is there any project that helps bring such functionality to, say, VirtualBox? Not because I encourage cheating, but because I should never have to install proprietary software on my personal machine to take an exam. I will however on occasion grudingly be okay with installing closed-source software inside of a VM.

Looks like there's one here: https://github.com/hfiref0x/VBoxHardenedLoader/blob/master/B...

Alternately, it seems that QEMU on linux does a pretty good job as well.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#74
post #64
post #9

Back in the good ol' days, you could just take the exam inside of a VM. The VM is locked down, but the host isn't. Looks like from ProctorU's docs[1] that they got around to probing for the (blatantly obvious[2]) signatures of a VM and stopped that trick. I wonder if those signatures exist in a Windows Sandbox[3] instance, or if you can detect/block the Enhanced RDP Session Windows leverages when running a Sandbox...…

Just get a monitor that supports Picture in Picture use two computers instead of one.

Wow that’s creative.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#75

I had a teacher that solved this by saying all exams were open book, and then put so many questions that if you didnt know the material you'd just run out of time. Basically you could look up a very low number of things in the amount of time per question allotted

Some people just work more slowly than others. Doesn't seem like a great solution.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#76
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the onerous requirements mentioned in the article are about the test taker and the environment they are in, not hte computer envirionment. A VM doesn't help you when your professor is requiring you to rearrange your room, set up mirrors, bash earplugs etc.

I'm the kind of person who dropped out of college anyway, so it really doesn't matter. But I would have told any professor pulling this nonsense to get stuffed. This is far less about cheating than petty power tripping. (They should, of course, feel free to abuse each other in what ever ways they find enjoyable. But this is really not my thing.)

This would almost certainly not work and you'd just get a 0 on the exam

Can I ask, in a totally non-confrontational way, are you successful in your field and used to getting what you want? Based off of nothing other than this post I would guess that is the case

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#77
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the US some class sizes are in the hundreds , so this does not seem scalable for their case.

If they're having trouble proctoring their exams, perhaps they're admitting too many students.

I think proctoring in-person was fine. The issue is only because it's remote.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#78

To me, this underscores notion that schools continue to test for the wrong thing. With the exception of professions/trades that require impulse application of knowledge, I don't know why I would want/need someone to memorize a concept in order to apply it. Productive members of our society/workforce think critically, they ask good questions, and they research and leverage the information at their disposal to make dat…

From what i remember of uni, most of the tests i took were not testing if you memorized a concept, but if you could apply it.

Sure the situation was still extremely contrived, but it wasn't simply regurgitating facts

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#79

I had a teacher that solved this by saying all exams were open book, and then put so many questions that if you didnt know the material you'd just run out of time. Basically you could look up a very low number of things in the amount of time per question allotted

As someone who had slow "processing speed" growing up, that would suck.

Re: Students have to jump through absurd hoops to use exam monitoring software

#80
Can we not just replace exams for meaningful coursework? We already have pretty decent software for testing uniqueness, etc.

This does of course put the burden back onto the teaching staff, give them a nice bonus to mark the work. Given school can shutdown their buildings they can save on costs such as heating, air conditioning, cleaning, electric, gas, maintenance, etc - there should be a little extra budget left-over for a marking bonus.

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