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Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

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Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people think this is a "bad thing"? It's no different than buying an expensive home anywhere in the world, except it comes with a citizenship. I doubt he can use the favorable taxation - he would have to renounce his US citizenship for that.

When a billionaire makes a move like this (getting citizenship in another country) it’s often criticized as an “escape plan”, or somewhere to run if any number of bad things happen to or in the USA. It’s viewed a little differently from most other ex-pats because these are the people who have the money and power to dramatically influence the government, so if they’re running from something here in the US, it’s either…

This is a QAnon level conspiracy madness.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#173
post #152

If this is indeed for a tax dodge, what's funny is that the US Government helped fund Google. Or, more accurately, they funded the research into the seemingly esoteric problem that became Google; > In 1995, one of the first and most promising MDDS grants went to a computer-science research team at Stanford University with a decade-long history of working with NSF and DARPA grants. The primary objective of this grant…

I went to the same high school as Sergey Brin, a little over a decade after he had and well after Google had become the de facto search standard. Didn't know until I was already in college. AFAIK he's never made an effort to reach out to them, grant resources, give a talk, anything. It's a majority-minority public school in a solidly middle class (like, actually middle class) suburb, so it's not like they're flush wi…

Well he might just not have fond memories of that school.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#174
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mariana Mazzucato's book "The Entrepreneurial State" is a good read on the matter of public funding for innovation: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781610396134

This is very misleading. US government heavily taxes people and organizations and spends on certain projects. But if people had more resources left to themselves, they could spend some of it on the same projects US gov spends it on. On top of that, US gov has all kinds of laws and regulations that make it difficult to do certain valuable things. For example, if companies in the same industry come together to do somet…

I'd strongly question the witch words 'heavily taxes'. The US federal government has some of the lowest income tax rates (both stated and effective) in the Western World [1]. And it's corporate tax rate is only slightly higher than the EU average [2], while in practice easily avoided [3] by large corporate entities like Google and Amazon.

Sources: [1] https://taxfoundation.org/taxing-high-income-2019/ [2] https://taxfoundation.org/publications/corporate-tax-rates-a... [3] https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/big-six-tech-....

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#175
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mariana Mazzucato's book "The Entrepreneurial State" is a good read on the matter of public funding for innovation: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781610396134

This is very misleading. US government heavily taxes people and organizations and spends on certain projects. But if people had more resources left to themselves, they could spend some of it on the same projects US gov spends it on. On top of that, US gov has all kinds of laws and regulations that make it difficult to do certain valuable things. For example, if companies in the same industry come together to do somet…

> This is very misleading. US government heavily taxes people and organizations and spends on certain projects. But if people had more resources left to themselves, they could spend some of it on the same projects US gov spends it on.

The burden of proof for that is on you. Where did it happen like that in recent history ? Even in Germany and Japan two other powerhouses of research in the world, it's greatly helped by the fact that public research (funded by the state) and corporations are intertwined. I'm French, our best years for innovation were during our glorious 30's when state was directing mainly state corporations (telecom, energy, aerospace) to do long term research. When it was privatized due to antitrust pressure by the EU, all that was killed (see how much telecom technology came from the CNET/Alcatel, even one of the Internet primary idea, packet switching, came from a French researcher of this era).

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand why selling citizenships is wrong. If both the seller and the buyer agree to a price, what's the problem?

Whether right or wrong, if the community that you are apart of is affected, then there are implications... some of which can become problems.

I don't see what kind of problems could arise from this. From the point of view of the country the number of citizens remains constant. Only the name and the facial features of the passport-holder have changed. There may of course be a fee for updating the passport, besides the price of the interchange.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#177
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mariana Mazzucato's book "The Entrepreneurial State" is a good read on the matter of public funding for innovation: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781610396134

This is very misleading. US government heavily taxes people and organizations and spends on certain projects. But if people had more resources left to themselves, they could spend some of it on the same projects US gov spends it on. On top of that, US gov has all kinds of laws and regulations that make it difficult to do certain valuable things. For example, if companies in the same industry come together to do somet…

Except, they don't. Mostly because of the "incentives" that Eric Schmidt mentioned. Science has always happened at the public purse for a reason - the timeline for returns is so unclear, and the timespan for fruition is so long that most people don't want to invest in this kind of science, rightly so.

Goddard's research, or heck even the Wright Brothers, to go from a smidgen to the Saturn V or Boeing 737, took decades of funding and research over time spans that are just too long for most investors and human beings.

I know some contemporary investors are trying to be ambitious and change this, which is something I applaud them for. But their inputs are still focussed on bringing technologies to commercialization, not the greenfield research needed to produce the next paradigm.

For example, during the US' Apollo Program, the necessity of a lightweight, power-efficient, and resilient navigation led to a radical design proposal that suggested a computer designed entirely out of Integrated Circuits (ICs). At the time, the IC industry had barely entered its cradle, with the "monolithic concept" having been invented less than 2 years before the proposed design. The Apollo Guidance Computer was the technology's first major application and became the first computer built from Integrated Circuits.

But the technology was too immature. They just didn't have production processes that could produce ICs at any level of reliability. It took nearly 5 years of collaboration between NASA, MIT, Fairchild Semiconductors, Texas Instruments, and others to create scalable and reliable processes to bring the Integrated Circuit concept to the mass production.

During this time, the Apollo Program consumed nearly 60% of all production capacity in the world. Without this effort, the advent of the personal computer would likely have been pushed back by a decade or more, due to low general interest in the risky new technology.

https://twitter.com/_areoform/status/1319694832311304192

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Testing this assumption.

There is an easy test for this assumption. Apple has $192.8 billion in cash on hand. What exactly is it doing with this money? Is it spending it on fundamental research in optics, laser communication, optical computing, and other stuff? No, it's not. Apple invests about $16bn a year on "R&D" which includes new product development and seeking marginal gains for production processes. Even here they do so with the help of Government funding. Yes, Apple applies for Government grants and R&D tax incentives.

What about Google? They had Google X, but it was short-lived, and they've broken up their most ambitious projects (which now seem to be withering). These projects will be dead far short of the multi-decade timeline needed to bring things to fruition. And they have $120 billion in cash lying around.

Google's pattern seems to be, they make a flashy announcement, and then they bail from putting long-term, significant capital where their mouth is. Take Calico for example, what's going on there? It seems to have a foot in the grave, and it's less than a decade old.

This isn't Google's fault, it's what investors want. They just aren't patient enough for Google to deploy the unproductive capital they already have into long-term research;

https://realmoney.thestreet.com/investing/technology/alphabe...

https://www.engadget.com/2020-02-20-alphabet-makani-chronicl...

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/is-alphabet-thinking-of-its-...

They don't see it as an investment into the future. They see it as a "money losing segment".

There will never be groundbreaking photonics Google research or a Google particle accelerator, simply because the "incentive structure" won't allow it.

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This fact translates geographies.

Furthermore, do people in low-tax jurisdictions and countries do more groundbreaking R&D? Places like Singapore and Hong Kong? As far as I can tell, no, they don't. Even there, what little research that gets done is on the taxpayer's dime.

This pattern has repeated itself across history & geography. There must be a reason for it. Saying that it's because Government takes away money and creates pressure on corporations + individuals which forfeits such private efforts denies the reality;

With few exceptions, almost every single breakthrough from the discovery of the Americas to the first computers has occurred on the taxpayer's dime. Or, more accurately, it has been performed by organizations who can afford to have some goals on decades-to-centuries long time horizons.

It is important to realize this dichotomy to understand why public funding matters, and why even today, for the pharma industry, the vast majority of targets and agents being tested have been/were funded/identified with public money.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#178
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are currently blocked from travel to many countries, European included, due to the bungling of their Covid 19 response.

I’m sorry, but this is missing the point. You’re forbidden from traveling FROM a country on whatever list (some are outright lists, some are based on the infection rate, etc.). Traveling FROM the US is the problem, regardless of where your passport is from. Getting a passport (or even a residence card) from an EU country would only allow you to get back to THAT country, it doesn’t just suddenly open up the world to y…

Well, yes, but if you are traveling to a country where you have a citizenship, it's considered repatriation, so travel rules do not apply (but you usually have different set of rules to abide). And a completely different set of rules also applies for international truck drivers, another for cross-country commuters, etc.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American citizens living and working abroad still must pay taxes to the US Government. As far as I am aware, the US is the only country in the world with this requirement. There is a reason the FBAR requirement is often called the "fubar" requirement.

You get a pretty high exemption for salary earned abroad if you paid local taxes on it and the country has a tax agreement with the US, which most do. You're still taxed on income earned within the US normally, but it seems reasonable that if you earned income from rent from a US property, or received dividends from a US company, that you should pay taxes on it even if you are not in the country.

You are taxed on income you make abroad, even if you never set foot in the country. I'm not talking about capital gains. I'm talking about income. Yes, up to a certain amount, you can deduct dollar-for-dollar taxes paid in the foreign country, but you are still taxed on that income. It's the only country in the world that does this. Because of this, among other bits, I do not think it is reasonable.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not moral behavior. Getting a second citizenship?

Buying one. Citizenship is something that ought to be earned and given to people who show that they want to live in and contribute to a country. People like Schmidt purchase themselves a tax excemption or freedom of movement in a world where ordinary people right now lose their jobs and are locked into their country.

I guess it really comes down to how you conceptualize the nation-state. I think most people view a nation as a community, a body politic, maybe even an extended family. Buying citizenship is just as tawdry as paying for a mail-order bride.

But I’m sorry. Me and many others see the nation state as a service provider. An institution that enforces the rule of law, furnishes protection from invaders and criminals, and provides large-scale public goods in exchange for some slice of tax revenue and a code of conduct.

But if I’m unhappy with a service provider, then I should be free to change vendors to whomever meets my need. No different than the freedom to pay for a new phone plan or new gym membership.

You complain that ordinary people don’t have the same consumer choice as the ultra-wealthy. If so, the focus should be on how to make the global market for nation-states more competitive for a wider range of consumers. I agree that many are locked into a shitty service provider. But if anything, the tiny slice of people who can exercise a choice almost certainly makes this market more, not less, competitive.

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