Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#161

Post by danaris » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #48

hamolton wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to a farmer's market tends to be easier

Very few farmers at a farmers market can honestly say the produce they're selling came from their farm. The vast majority comes from wholesale auctions just like everything else.

Well, dunno about where you live, but around here, "farmers' markets" are actually attended by genuine small farmers, who genuinely grow the genuine produce they sell. Multiple vendors at the local markets are also Community-Supported Agriculture farms, and we've personally had shares from one in recent years (though not currently).

Of course, "around here" is in a rural area, surrounded by...farms.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#162

Post by jl6 » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #139

petargyurov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am certain that a vast majority of people have never tasted a "real" tomato. Here in the UK (though I'm sure this applies globally), tomatoes sold in supermarkets taste like plastic. Reason being is that they are picked when they are green and they "ripen" by the time they get to the store shelf. This is done because tomatoes are almost impossible to transfer safely in large quantities, because when they are ripe t…

I'm in the UK and I grow my own veg. The small on-the vine tomatos from Tesco are very acceptable - fragrant and sweet. The small cherry vine tomatoes from Waitrose are luscious. ... Not as good as a warm tomato straigh off the plant on a sunny day, but not far off.

I sometimes think tomatoes are all born with a fixed amount of flavour in them, and the larger they grow the more dilute that flavour becomes. Because I agree - the little ones are fine.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#163

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

smichel17 wrote: post #154

bttrfl wrote: post #135

There's no scientific basis for my choice, but I have almost entirely stopped eating seasonal produce out of a season. I eat tomatoes in the summer and early autumn and then I patiently wait months to eat them again. When the winter comes I switch to vegetables that I haven't eaten at all or in limited amount for past half a year - beetroot, cabbage, carrot and more. I also eat all kinds of quality fermented, process…

Doesn't need a scientific basis -- in-season produce just tastes better. For some it's not such a big difference but for others (tomatoes!) you might as well be eating a different plant.

Tomatoes strike me as something that more people should grow at home, where space permits. There seems to be a bigger delta in quality for tomatoes than most other produce when picked fresh, and they’re not the kind of vegetable that most of us go through a huge amount of[0]. Also, they don’t consume a huge amount of space; even a planter on the porch can produce a decent yearly crop.

0: Except for soups, but for that kind of application canned tomatoes are best, since they’re canned when fresh rather than being picked before ripening to survive shipping.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#164

Post by ip26 » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:45 PM UTC

Cytobit wrote: post #155

bttrfl wrote: post #135

There's no scientific basis for my choice, but I have almost entirely stopped eating seasonal produce out of a season. I eat tomatoes in the summer and early autumn and then I patiently wait months to eat them again. When the winter comes I switch to vegetables that I haven't eaten at all or in limited amount for past half a year - beetroot, cabbage, carrot and more. I also eat all kinds of quality fermented, process…

Does anybody have a good suggestion for figuring out which produce is seasonal? Do you just buy stuff grown in/around your home country? It seems like I can usually buy any vegetable I want, regardless of the time of year, so I have no sense of when anything is in season.

A big one is simply price. Produce tends to be cheapest, often dramatically so, while it is in season.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#165

Post by zacherates » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #162

Angostura wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK and I grow my own veg. The small on-the vine tomatos from Tesco are very acceptable - fragrant and sweet. The small cherry vine tomatoes from Waitrose are luscious. ... Not as good as a warm tomato straigh off the plant on a sunny day, but not far off.

I sometimes think tomatoes are all born with a fixed amount of flavour in them, and the larger they grow the more dilute that flavour becomes. Because I agree - the little ones are fine.

Smaller tomatoes taste better because they are easier to ship without damaging (they're lighter and have a much lower mass to surface area ratio). As such, producers and supply chains don't have to go to the same extremes (breeding them to be tough rather than flavorful/picking them completely green) to get them to the supermarket shelf intact.

Similarly, canned tomatoes taste great[1] because they are picked ripe and packaged.

[1] Canned tomatoes have a slight cooked taste so they're never going to taste fresh, but are great in anything you're going to cook.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#166

Post by whoomp12342 » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

I am sufficiently confused. How does not using pesticides restore minerals?

I don't doubt that soil erosion is a real thing, thats why famrers use cover crops and tilling, but where does said nutrients come from??

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#167

Post by fbelzile » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

whoomp12342 wrote: post #166

I am sufficiently confused. How does not using pesticides restore minerals? I don't doubt that soil erosion is a real thing, thats why famrers use cover crops and tilling, but where does said nutrients come from??

Organic farming involves more crops that die from pests. I presume those crops/dead pests decompose and replenish the soil with more nutrients for the next season.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#168

Post by montjoy » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

TaupeRanger wrote: post #148

This kind of tripe is why nutrition epidemiology is basically the laughing stock of modern science. First of all, the article is almost 10 years old and references data from 1999 at the latest. But most importantly, it uses common nutrition weasel words like "healthy" and "good for you", which are not supported (in fact, CAN'T be supported) by the study. It is a huge leap to go from "there's less Vitamin C in this su…

Old data doesn’t make it invalid. I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume soil with more nutrients in it results in food with more nutrients in it (at least within a reasonable set of values). I think it’s also worth checking that food that is modified for growth and resistance factors is still as “nutritious” as before. Do you have any references to your claim that organic food does/does not change health outcomes?

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#169

Post by zwieback » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #21

punnerud wrote: post #5

Blueberries that taste the same but are transparent in the middle. Tomatoes that tase water. Cucumber that look great and almost tasteless. You don't know what you are missing if you have never tasted the "real" deal.

Almost tasteless cucumber is great! Especially for kids. In summer, my kids ask for a cold cucumber instead of a can of soda. I guess if the cucumber was too tasty they wouldn't really like it as much. It's "chewy water", just like watermelon but without the sweet.

I grow multiple kinds of cucumbers each year and it took me a while to find one that stays watery and mild instead of getting lemony and overly flavorful. I like both but for a lot of recipes I want a real background kind of flavor.

Re: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious? (2011)

#170

Post by elorant » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

Cytobit wrote: post #155

bttrfl wrote: post #135

There's no scientific basis for my choice, but I have almost entirely stopped eating seasonal produce out of a season. I eat tomatoes in the summer and early autumn and then I patiently wait months to eat them again. When the winter comes I switch to vegetables that I haven't eaten at all or in limited amount for past half a year - beetroot, cabbage, carrot and more. I also eat all kinds of quality fermented, process…

Does anybody have a good suggestion for figuring out which produce is seasonal? Do you just buy stuff grown in/around your home country? It seems like I can usually buy any vegetable I want, regardless of the time of year, so I have no sense of when anything is in season.

I live in Greece and only buy seasonal produce because everything out of its season is choke full of pesticides, plus they don't taste the same. For example tomatoes in September are sour, while if you buy them during February they're sweeter. You can also tell by their shape, produce grown in a greenhouse looks in a far better shape than the one grown in the field, because the latter is exposed to weather condition and it takes a beat on its surface/appearance. As a general rule of thumb, the more uniform a vegetable/fruit appears the less tasty it is.

Other than that, there are plenty of guides on the web regarding what to buy when. Just make a search for "seasonal vegetables and fruits" and you'll find a lot of infographics.