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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#181

Post by CompuHacker »

unglaublich wrote: post #132
yakz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

'Run unapproved software'. What's the difference between asking a calculator to add 1 to 2, and asking a scripting engine to add a to b?

It'll take you a lot longer to violate intellectual property law with the stock calculator.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#182

Post by andrekandre »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #155

Is Apple really expecting developers to port their tools to the arm macs with their iOS policies (that I’m sure they are salivating to establish for macOS). Good luck to them and their iOS developer minions.

if in the end, tactics like this drive technically minded people away from their platforms, it will in the end, hurt them (less innovative and polished apps)...

its sad... i remember the days when os x was hitting home run after home run, and polished third-party (many indie) innovative apps were flourishing... maybe im just being nostalgic idk

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#183

Post by fxtentacle »

mortenjorck wrote: post #28

This isn’t sustainable. Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting. This on top of the App Store's already-onerous restrictions and the fact that it’s the only practical way to get your software on one of the world's largest computing platforms has already engendered a deep antipathy [1] among Apple developers, and there are no signs it’s getting better. Something has to…

I believe it is sustainable if you're willing to burn through disposable 3rd party developers.

From my experience, it always follow the same path. Some promising developer gets infatuated with Apple's supposed ease of use and looks at the shiny aggregate numbers like $155 billion paid out to developers. Said developer jumps through all the hoops and builds a great app. Users love it, but since competition in the app store is insane, the developer barely makes back his/her initial investment. Then Apple changes the APIs and rules, the app becomes unusable and/or expensive to maintain and over time the developer burns out and gives up. Thus, there's now an opening for the next promising developer to start building an app.

As long as Apple doesn't run out of new developers happy to join the App Store, they can treat their 3rd party "partners" as badly as they want. It's kind of the same power dynamic that makes sure that hair saloons all over the world treat their employees badly.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#184

Post by andrekandre »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #172
cblconfederate wrote: post #123

Grabbing my popcorn to watch as the apple sympathizing crowd comes up with more excuses

I'd still like a good explanation why I can't do what I want with my phone. You don't want do to that? Good, don't. Make it so that I can, if I have to tick a box somewhere hidden in Apple's labyrinthine and undiscoverable Settings app. Of course, we already know the answer why I can't do what I want with my phone, because it isn't my phone, is it, Apple continues to think of it as theirs and they simply grudgingly r…

> I can't do what I want with my phone.

well, you kind of can, you just need a mac and xcode ^^;

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#185

Post by cma »

vosper wrote: post #168
userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

Legacy stuff that they are currently eroding. They invalidated (or threatened to) developer signatures on Desktop/Laptop that were supposed to be 100% about security over an iOS business dispute.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#186

Post by emsy »

vosper wrote: post #168
userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

They have been working on locking those down too, even before they announced the switch to ARM, which will continue this trend.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#187

Post by josephcsible »

jariel wrote: post #135
threeseed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. Makes you wonder why they bother ? Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing.

"Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing." This is fairly easily disprovable by the mere existence of Android - which has a healthy app market place, tons of great apps and is for all intents and purposes, just as secure. Google Play does a fine job of promoting good apps, keeping bad ones out, and I can still go 'off network' and download my IT app or whatever that…

Be careful: the Play Store has a bunch of problems too and is in some ways almost as bad as Apple's App Store. The real reason that Android is better than iOS is that you can sideload apps from third-party sources.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#188

Post by petra »

mortenjorck wrote: post #68
threeseed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. Makes you wonder why they bother ? Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing.

The question is this: Do you want to build within a certain set of categories Apple unambiguously supports? If you're building a to-do app supported by a monthly subscription, there's no shifting foundation there. If you're building a free-to-play game whose in-app purchases consist of "handful of gems," "bag of gems," and "trunk of gems," you have nothing to worry about from App Review. If you're building something…

//What the App Store is definitively not, however, is conducive to innovation, experimentation, and risk-taking.

Are there any signs that iOS is significantly worse than Android with regards to innovative apps?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#189

Post by josephcsible »

vosper wrote: post #168
userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

Give it a few more years. They're working on it. They've already done Gatekeeper, SIP, removal of kexts, making the root partition read-only every boot even if you turn off SIP, etc.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#190

Post by syrrim »

>The nature of iSH meant that this problem was fundamental, as users can always add back functionality that we remove.

That's the point, isn't it? When I had an iphone, I always understood that there are no local terminal apps because apple banned them. They shifted the rules slightly since then to make it easier to make apps for teaching programming, but the goal was never to make generic dev environments. When I heard about this app, I assumed there had been a fairly fundamental change in the sorts of apps apple allowed. It seems like no such change occurred - apple just didn't notice what the app was doing until after it was released.

Good on the iSH people for giving it a shot. I doubt they'll break through the apple wall, but there's always a chance.

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