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Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

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Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#821

Post by thehappypm »

ablekh wrote: post #659

OK, so the transition from Make America Great Again slogan to Make America Decent Again (and Better) reality is inevitable and welcome. It is easy to get overjoyed by results of the U.S. Presidential Election (and some celebration certainly is in order). Uniting the country is definitely a commendable goal, though it is easier said than done. The election results across all levels clearly illustrate just how divided…

It was not inevitable that Biden would win. The electoral college is a major hurdle to overcome — he still came pretty close to losing a few key states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania which would have made it much much less likely for him to win. It took hard work, lots of money, and historically high turnout to get here. Incumbents rarely lose. This was pushing a boulder uphill. But it happened. Biden 2020.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#822

Post by onecommentman »

Thanks for the valiant attempts to keep this discussion from devolving into a full-fledged dumpster fire.

1. The US, by the most generally accepted definition, has had continuous governance as a democracy since 1788. Just one more election, and not the most contentious or momentous by a long shot.

2. Current reported spread in votes between D and R are pretty slim, 75.0M v. 70.7M Wikipedia 11PM EST 11/7.

3. Whatever your partisan opinion, at least 70M American adults, 48.5% of those voting, disagree with you and think you’re an idiot. Try not to confirm the fact with your comments.

4. Challenging the validity of the voting process is a time-honored tradition during tight races. Stop sounding like newbies. This is the only time that the validity of the electoral process gets enough visibility to figure out if anything’s broke. Seriously broke? See 1.

5. A paper trail is a beautiful thing.

6. And what a wonderfully fertile field these comments are for use as examples of propaganda, inflammatory rhetoric and logical fallacies. Wish I was teaching a course right about now. Timely for the application of manure on fields too...

7. It would be nice if the mods kept the discussion away from an r/politics-ization of HN. The sides are pretty obvious and enforcing an arbitrary quota of half blue hurrah/half red hurrah would lead to a better flow and balance. Heavy-handed, but appropriate in these few cases IMHO.

The brilliant, stupid, wise, foolish, angry, mellow, old, young, rich, poor, naive, cynical, kind, nasty, sophisticated, brutish American people have spoken. Whether you agree with the results or not, it’s a beautiful thing.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#823

Post by beamatronic »

anonu wrote: post #712

The country may be divided. But those divisions are manufactured and exacerbated over the last 4 years by a made-for-TV president. I couldn't help but think, in looking at various TV news channels this past week, that this is all sport. Big numbers on the score board and the play-by-play constantly flashing on the screens. We're the spectators, and the politicians are players on the field. Trump played the field bett…

We aren’t all rooting for fascism. Speak for yourself.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#824

Post by mlurp »

dorkwood wrote: post #819

There's a famous optical illusion with a spinning silhouette of a dancer. When you look at it, you'll swear it's spinning in one direction -- say, counter-clockwise. In fact, you'll be so sure it's spinning counter-clockwise, that the idea it could be spinning in the opposite direction will seem impossible to you. But if you stare at it long enough, and intently enough, you can make it spin the other way. I've notice…

I think this is a really valuable way of thinking. Something similar I wish everyone would ask themselves is "why do I have this opinion/belief/etc?" for any topic.

Just like most religious people are the religion that their parents were, most people don't really choose their political beliefs. It's not to say we don't learn justifications for what we believe, but it means that the fact that we believe in one thing over another is somewhat random imo.

Somewhere out there in the US is someone who's pretty similar to me in most ways, they were just born in a part of the country where their default beliefs are different.

And for consistency, I do put more stake in someone's beliefs when they change from their "defaults".

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#825

Post by lumpenprole »

onecommentman wrote: post #822

Thanks for the valiant attempts to keep this discussion from devolving into a full-fledged dumpster fire. 1. The US, by the most generally accepted definition, has had continuous governance as a democracy since 1788. Just one more election, and not the most contentious or momentous by a long shot. 2. Current reported spread in votes between D and R are pretty slim, 75.0M v. 70.7M Wikipedia 11PM EST 11/7. 3. Whatever…

> enforcing an arbitrary quota of half blue hurrah/half red hurrah would lead to a better flow and balance

Very fine people on both sides.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#826

Post by nojvek »

onecommentman wrote: post #822

Thanks for the valiant attempts to keep this discussion from devolving into a full-fledged dumpster fire. 1. The US, by the most generally accepted definition, has had continuous governance as a democracy since 1788. Just one more election, and not the most contentious or momentous by a long shot. 2. Current reported spread in votes between D and R are pretty slim, 75.0M v. 70.7M Wikipedia 11PM EST 11/7. 3. Whatever…

I feel HN has a decent balance of world events and tech. This is one of those occasions where I do want to engage in a conversation and hear the diversity of opinions.

Sure, obvious flame wars ought to be banned, but I’ve learned a ton about the strategy of different candidates and how it panned out. Various hypothesis on why things went a certain way and the permutations of what-if scenarios.

As you say, it’s a beautiful thing.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#827

Post by EGreg »

When I was growing up, Conservatives were the ones much more proud of US institutions, like the courts, universities, and even the free media, while Liberals and Leftists such as Chomsky were always criticizing these institutions, e.g. the media in the book Manufacturing Consent. (They criticized it as being too much a mouthpiece of the government.)

I find it interesting that four years of Trump's usual blame-shifting, together with his fan base, has resulted in Trumpists blowing way past the Leftists in their distrust of all US institutions. This is far beyond the Tea party's displeasure with government spending. Sure, Republicans distrusted scientists before, but now Trump supporters distrust the following for partisan reasons:

Media

Polls

Election

Scientific establishment

Medical establishment [1]

Universities

Courts (so-called judges[2], Mexican heritage[3] etc.)

FBI

CIA

IRS

and much more.

Are the institutions perfect? No. Is there fraud and corruption? Sure, but comparing to other countries relatively little, and probably less than in the past. But destroying Americans' trust in these institutions can be dangerous. I can understand dissidents doing it, but the President?

1. https://ctmirror.org/2020/10/18/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc/

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/04/tr...

3. https://www.politifact.com/article/2016/jun/08/donald-trumps...

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#828

Post by yaacov »

onecommentman wrote: post #822

Thanks for the valiant attempts to keep this discussion from devolving into a full-fledged dumpster fire. 1. The US, by the most generally accepted definition, has had continuous governance as a democracy since 1788. Just one more election, and not the most contentious or momentous by a long shot. 2. Current reported spread in votes between D and R are pretty slim, 75.0M v. 70.7M Wikipedia 11PM EST 11/7. 3. Whatever…

This is a really good post for the most part, but I strongly disagree with

> enforcing an arbitrary quota of half blue hurrah/half red hurrah would lead to a better flow and balance

This forum isn’t meant to represent the American electorate. We’re a global community of hackers with unique interests and values, and there’s no reason why we should be forced to reflect a divided America if we ourselves are not nearly as divided.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#829

Post by dillondoyle »

king_panic wrote: post #715
ablekh wrote: post #659

OK, so the transition from Make America Great Again slogan to Make America Decent Again (and Better) reality is inevitable and welcome. It is easy to get overjoyed by results of the U.S. Presidential Election (and some celebration certainly is in order). Uniting the country is definitely a commendable goal, though it is easier said than done. The election results across all levels clearly illustrate just how divided…

The election of the Senate is as representative of the country as election of the president. The idea they have to vote in accordance with your opinion on issues in order to 'restore the moral fabric of the country', whatever that means, is condescending and self-righteous.

I am not alone in arguing that the Senate is not representative of the country, just as the electoral college is not. And it will increasingly become less and less representative as more and more people move to a few cities in a few states.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#830

Post by amykyta »

jebronie wrote: post #261

For me the bottomline of the Trump administration is that he has started zero new wars, sparing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. As an outsider I hope that the US will not go back to its foreign military interventions.

Bottom line or at least some silver lining?
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